Date sent: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 14:08:24 -0600
From: owner-silence-digest@bga.com
To: silence-digest@bga.com
Subject: silence-digest V1 #1
Send reply to: silence@bga.com
silence-digest Thursday, 15 December 1994 Volume 01 : Number 001
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Joseph Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 17:24:21 600
Subject: Re: Dancing About Architecture
Originally From: musrst@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Robert Thompson)
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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 17:41:49 -0500
Message-Id: <9412132241.AA25763@gsusgi2.gsu.edu>
To: silence@bga.com
Subject: Re: Dancing about Architecture
Hi there - help I need to know something about this quotation:
"...writing about music is like dancing about architecture."
.who originally said this, and where...
thanks mucho
******************************************************************************
*
Dr. Robert Scott Thompson
musrst@gsusgi2.gsu.edu
Georgia State University
Office: 404-651-3676
School of Music, 1 Univ. Plaza
FAX: 404-952-9561
Atlanta, Georgia, 30303-3083 USA
Computer Music, Ambient Music, Avant-garde Music
"...process itself might be the Zeitgeist of our age." - Morton Feldman
******************************************************************************
*
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ==== Austin, Texas! \|||
||/ "Minimum ethic: Do what you said you'd do. \||
|/ Can't do it? Telephone. No answer?" -- John Cage \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
------------------------------
From: "Cary Wilkins" <WCARY@CLEMSON.EDU>
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 94 22:08 EST
Subject: Re: I Ching, et al
On Sun, 11 Dec 1994 08:00:40 +0800 smoliar@ISS.NUS.SG(Stephen aid:
Smoliar) said:
>Peter N. Risser tries to put all of his eggs in one basket:
>>Peter Castine wrote:
>>>But Cage took the trouble to ask the I Ching what to think
>>>about using a computer to generate random numbers. I don't
>>>remember the exact response but it was definitely
>>>encouraging.
>>Did he? I don't remember that. That doesn't mean it
>>didn't happen, but I am doubtful . . .
>I just tried to find this in print . . . without success. I
>DO remember Cage mentioning this at the MIT seminar he gave.
I hope I haven't missed a response to this. In Part V of
Diary: How to Improve . . ., p. 60 of "M," Cage says:
"It took six weeks to teach the
computer how to toss three coins six
times. Somewhat worried, I tossed coins
manually to discover from the
I Ching how I Ching felt about being
programmed. It was delighted.
I Ching promised quantitative
increase of benefits for culture."
Cary Wilkins, Clemson University, Clemson, SC
wcary@clemson.edu
------------------------------
From: Amy Clark Beal <mainz@umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 09:56:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Dancing About Architecture
regarding the quote "writing about music is like dancing about
architecture"...
someone on the amslist recently quoted this and attributed it to Laurie
Anderson. No citation, sorry!
amy beal
------------------------------
From: terry kroetsch f <tkroetsc@mach1.wlu.ca>
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 11:43:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Dancing About Architecture
Well EVERYONE I asked thought it was Zappa. No citation, sorry.
On Wed, 14 Dec 1994, Amy Clark Beal wrote:
> regarding the quote "writing about music is like dancing about
> architecture"...
> someone on the amslist recently quoted this and attributed it to Laurie
> Anderson. No citation, sorry!
> amy beal
>
------------------------------
From: "Alaric S. Haag - IMRlab System Manager and part-time Visigoth" <system@
imr00.me.lsu.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 12:33:22 CST
Subject: Re: Dancing About Architecture
MX%"silence@bga.com" writes:
> From:
MX%"silence@bga.com" 14-DEC-1994 11:57:17.44
> Subj:
Re: Dancing About Architecture
> regarding the quote "writing about music is like dancing about
> architecture"...
> someone on the amslist recently quoted this and attributed it to Laurie
> Anderson. No citation, sorry!
> amy beal
Yet another variation...My understanding (sorry again...no citation) is that
Laurie Anderson attributed it to Elvis Costello. I have a friend who thinks
she can dredge up a citation, so I will post it just as soon as I can.
Ric
%^{)
- ----
[ Alaric S. Haag, Research Associate haag@imr00.me.lsu.edu
]
[ Louisiana State University, Mech. Engr. Dept. FAX: (504) 388-5924
]
[ Baton Rouge, LA 70803 Opinions: (504) 388-5897
]
"Waiting to die is no way to live" - from "Dreams" by Kurosawa
------------------------------
End of silence-digest V1 #1
***************************
Date sent: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 09:08:42 -0600
From: owner-silence-digest@bga.com
To: silence-digest@bga.com
Subject: silence-digest V1 #2
Send reply to: silence@bga.com
silence-digest Tuesday, 27 December 1994 Volume 01 : Number 002
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pnr@po.CWRU.Edu (Peter N. Risser)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 17:17:52 -0500
Subject: WRUW-FM
Hi. It's me again. Just to make it official our radio station's
address and phone are:
WRUW-FM Cleveland (that's 91.1 for those of you in the area)
11220 Bellflower Road
Cleveland, OH 4416
(216)368-2208
So, if you got stuff (promos, et al) to send to us (esp. me, seeing as I do
a computer/electronic classical show) you can send it there. If you like,
you can send it c/o Peter Risser. But that's not necessary.
Chris: Your album sounds killer. It'd be great if you could spot us a
copy. Like, I said I really get into the algorithmical stuff. (anyone
heard the latest Artifact releases?)
Anyway, thanks y'all.
- -- Pete
- --
By hearing such music, seemingly so much noise, !
when I actually came upon noise in reality, ! Peter Risse
I found that I had gone up over it. ! pnr@po.cwru.ed
-- William Carlos Williams on John Cage !
------------------------------
From: pnr@po.CWRU.Edu (Peter N. Risser)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 17:24:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Dancing About Architecture
>Well EVERYONE I asked thought it was Zappa. No citation, sorry.
>> regarding the quote "writing about music is like dancing about
>> architecture"...
>> someone on the amslist recently quoted this and attributed it to Laurie
>> Anderson. No citation, sorry!
No, see, the fact that these folks are quoting it makes me think that it
comes from an earlier source.
How can a quote so popular not have a known source?
Anyone?
(Elvis Costello? I don't think so.)
- --
By hearing such music, seemingly so much noise, !
when I actually came upon noise in reality, ! Peter Risse
I found that I had gone up over it. ! pnr@po.cwru.ed
-- William Carlos Williams on John Cage !
------------------------------
From: "Jamey Pritchett" <jwp@silvertone.Princeton.EDU>
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 94 19:14:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Music For - suggestions?
By "uninterrupted sequence of pieces and interludes", Cage means
to take a continuous chunk of the score, not to move around randomly
within it. Better system: Use your 38 cards to pick two pieces/interludes,
one to start and one to end with.
James Pritchett
jwp@silvertone.Princeton.EDU
------------------------------
From: "Jamey Pritchett" <jwp@silvertone.Princeton.EDU>
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 94 19:18:05 -0500
Subject: Re: turntables
Also, Imaginary Landscape #5 uses recordings to make a live performance and/or
recorded tape. No one pays much attention to IL5, perhaps because it hides
in the shadow of the infamous 12-radio IL4, and also perhaps because it was
a very trivial piece (by Cage's own admission).
jwp@silvertone.Princeton.EDU
------------------------------
From: musrst@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Robert Thompson)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 94 23:02:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Dancing About Architecture
My foggy memory...
but, it occurs to me that it might have been either Christian Wolf or
Morton Feldman...and I betcha that Cage has said it too...maybe...
I hope someone has a solid lead, I need the reference yesterday...
merry/happy y'all
******************************************************************************
*
Dr. Robert Scott Thompson
musrst@gsusgi2.gsu.edu
Georgia State University
Office: 404-651-3676
School of Music, 1 Univ. Plaza
FAX: 404-952-9561
Atlanta, Georgia, 30303-3083 USA
Computer Music, Ambient Music, Avant-garde Music
"...process itself might be the Zeitgeist of our age." - Morton Feldman
******************************************************************************
*
------------------------------
From: saxmania@rci.ripco.com (Sax Therapy)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 1994 23:22:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Dancing About Architecture
>
> My foggy memory...
>
> but, it occurs to me that it might have been either Christian Wolf or
> Morton Feldman...and I betcha that Cage has said it too...maybe...
> I hope someone has a solid lead, I need the reference yesterday...
> ****************************************************************************
***
what about the possibility that it could be Cage quoting Merce Cunningham.
I recall Cage mentioning conversations with Cunningham on several
occasions.
- --
_ \/ _ _ _ \ / s a u l s m a i z y s
S /=\/\ | |-| e R /-\ P | vox[312]907.8229 fax[312]907.8521
web page http://ripco.com:8080/~saxmania/
------------------------------
From: Mark_Nevins-CSCM06@email.mot.com
Date: 16 Dec 94 06:54:42 -0600
Subject: RE: Dancing About Architecture
...or what about Cage quoting Golda Meir? Jeeez, if we don't know we don't
know. Let's stop wasting time speculating on who said this until we can find
a
definitive source.
"I turned to my wife and said: 'The phone's gonna start ringing in the
morning.'"
Fred Brown, whose errant pass sealed Georgetown's loss in the 1982 NCAA
basketball finals, on watching the game-breaking illegal timeout by Michigan's
Chris Weber in this 1993's game.
Cheers, Nevdog
______________________________________________________________________________
_
To: silence@bga.com@INTERNET
Cc: saxmania@golden.ripco.com@INTERNET
From: silence@bga.com@INTERNET on Fri, Dec 16, 1994 12:43 AM
Subject: Re: Dancing About Architecture
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 672
Precedence: bulk
>
> My foggy memory...
>
> but, it occurs to me that it might have been either Christian Wolf or
> Morton Feldman...and I betcha that Cage has said it too...maybe...
> I hope someone has a solid lead, I need the reference yesterday...
>
******************************************************************************
*
what about the possibility that it could be Cage quoting Merce Cunningham.
I recall Cage mentioning conversations with Cunningham on several
occasions.
- --
_ \/ _ _ _ \ / s a u l s m a i z y s
S /=\/\ | |-| e R /-\ P | vox[312]907.8229 fax[312]907.8521
web page http://ripco.com:8080/~saxmania/
------------------------------
From: "Jerry L Young" <jerry_l_young@riscgate.sps.mot.com>
Date: 16 Dec 1994 07:51:51 U
Subject: Re: Dancing About Architect
Reply to: RE>>Dancing About Architecture
Mark Nevins said
>...or what about Cage quoting Golda Meir? Jeeez, if we don't know we don't
>know. Let's stop wasting time speculating on who said this until we can
find a
>definitive source.
Thanks Mark for putting this out of our misery.
>"I turned to my wife and said: 'The phone's gonna start ringing in the
>morning.'"
>
>Fred Brown,
Are you sure it was Fred Brown who said this?
Here's a Cage-related question I have wondered about. Has anyone ever seen
(or better yet, does anyone remember) the performance of les noces that
Cunningham choreographed at Brandeis University (in the late '40s if I
remember). Cunningham does't remember much about it other than that the
pianos were on stage and the stage was so small that the dancers had to
squeeze between them to get on and off stage, and that that affected what he
could do with the entrances and exits. Likewise, I've always been curious
about the choreography to Louis Moreau Gottschallk's "The Banjo." Strange to
imagine Tudor playing this.
Also, has there ever turned up a videotape or kinescope of Cage on "I've Got
a Secret?" doing "WaterWalk?"
Jerry
------------------------------
From: toyoji <toyoji@ella.mills.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 09:39:54 +48000
Subject: Re: Music For - suggestions?
Jamey,
WOW!...I think you might be RIGHT.
Now I feel guilty...the performance already happened -- BUT NEXT
TIME!...
Thanks.
toyoji
On Thu, 15 Dec 1994, Jamey Pritchett wrote:
> By "uninterrupted sequence of pieces and interludes", Cage means
> to take a continuous chunk of the score, not to move around randomly
> within it. Better system: Use your 38 cards to pick two pieces/interludes,
> one to start and one to end with.
>
> James Pritchett
> jwp@silvertone.Princeton.EDU
>
------------------------------
From: "Joseph Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 1994 13:32:52 600
Subject: Re: Dancing About Architect
"Jerry L Young" <jerry_l_young@riscgate.sps.mot.com> wrote
> Also, has there ever turned up a videotape or kinescope of Cage on "I've Got
> a Secret?" doing "WaterWalk?"
"I've Got a Secret"?!
Nope, but I do have a transcript of Cage's appearance on "Lascio o
Raddoppia" in 1958. It's in an Italian book/magazine which may be an
issue of "Sonora" (I can't quite tell; my Italian is week). It also
contains a CD containing version of "Ryoanji", "Two", and others
(maddenly, it can't play on any CD player I have), and (to completely
wander off topic) the most complete Cage bibli/disc/vide/ography I've
ever seen (which, BTW, says that "The Beatles 1962-1970" was composed
in 1990).
Parenthetically yours....
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ==== Austin, Texas! \|||
||/Online Liaison, 3rd Annual Austin International Poetry Festival \||
|/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
------------------------------
From: David W Patterson <dwp1@columbia.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 94 18:47:20 EST
Subject: Re: Dancing About Architect
Dear Jerry,
My own notes on Cage have the following entry for the performance of
Les Noces you mention. Not much on that work itself, since I'm more
interested in the electronic portions of the program. Hope it's
useful.
6/14/1952 Waltham, MA/Brandeis Univ., Ullman Amphitheatre,
8:30p./JCA, 1952 file; CDA, Programs 1952-1955 file
Event: Cunningham dance recital. [Cage not in attendance.]
Program: Two different choreographies to Excerpts from Symphonie pour
un Homme Seul [Pierre Schaeffer], the "First performance of musique
concrete in the United States." [Program notes] Version I - solo.
Version II - Cunningham, w/ Natayna Neumann; Joan Skinner; Anneliese
Widman; Joanne Finkelor, Jo Anne Melsher, Marianne Preger, Greta
Rosenzweig, Remy Charlip; Ben Garber; Donald McKayle. First of three
works on a program w/ Stravinsky's Les Noces and Weill's Threepenny
Opera.
Notes: Part of Festival of the Creative Arts (6/12-15). Leonard
Bernstein directs the festival, meant to celebrate Brandeis's first
commencement. 3,100 (capacity audience) attend this performance.
--David Patterson
Columbia University
------------------------------
From: David W Patterson <dwp1@columbia.edu>
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 94 10:15:24 EST
Subject: Re: Dancing About Architect
Jerry--
P.S. JCA and CDA are my abbreviations for the John Cage Archives at
Northwestern University and the Cunningham Dance Archives here in New
York.
-David Patterson
Columbia University
dwp1@columbia.edu
------------------------------
From: "Joseph Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 14:45:26 600
Subject: Cage in September Neue Zeitschrift fur Musik
This may be old news for y'all, but... I just ran across what appears
to be a good series of articles on Cage/Cunningham/Tudor in the
September Neue Zeitschrift fur Musik.
It includes a mesostic I hadn't seen before; the spine is 'THE READY
MADE BOOMERANG ALTERNATIVES TO HARMONY CHANCE OPERATIONS SILENCE
THEATRE NO GOVERNMENT NO EDUCATION". (The beginning of it, come to
think of it, is in the liner notes to a Deep Listening Band album).
It also has several articles, a poem about "Ryoanji" by Klaus
Schoening, and reviews of several recordings and books (including
James Pritchett's "The Music of John Cage").
I can't say how good the content is, though -- it's going to take me
a while to plow through this with what's left of my high-school
training in German and a dictionary.
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ==== Austin, Texas! \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/Online Liaison, Third Annual Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
------------------------------
From: ckk@uchicago.edu
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 15:12:41 -0600
Subject: FANFARE magazine?
FANFARE magazine is going to review my computer music CD "Brains" in their
May/June 1995 issue. Do any of you ever read this magazine? It's the world's
most widely circulated magazine about classical music, or something like that?
It's available on newsstands everywhere, I guess.
The editor told me that he gets letters from people asking for more coverage
of "new music" sorts of recordings, so they're very interested in reviewing my
CD and other things like it. Maybe more of you should write to them and
express your interest in seeing them cover more post-Cagean things, give them
suggestions etc.
Also Stephen Smoliar thought that my CD is available in US record stores (the
conversation was about Cleveland, in particular) but unfortunately it's only
available currently via mail order, either from me (cheap, only $8, slow poor
service :-) or from Wayside Music (more expensive, $13 plus shipping, but well
established commercial indie mail order catalog). Of course if your local
indie record shop wants to carry a few copies, that would be great, have them
contact me.
Sorry for the semi-commercial message, I really don't want anyone to even
remotely suspect/accuse me of "spamming" but someday my small independent run
of weird music CD's might be valuable collector's items and you on the Net are
the only lucky few people who know about it ....
Chris Koenigsberg
ckk@uchicago.edu
CD address:
PWOA Productions
Suite 705-405
1163 E. Ogden Ave.
Naperville, IL. 60563 USA
------------------------------
From: John L Walters <walters@gn.apc.org>
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 94 01:10:39 GMT
Subject: rolywholyover
What do you think of Rolywholyover, A Circus? This is the catalogue
to the Cage exhibition at MOCA in LA - a kind of exploded fine art
book in a shiny metal box. Everyone that I show my copy to gets very
excited, but I've seen no reviews or reactions from musicians and
artists from further afield.
John L Walters, editor, unknown public, uk
------------------------------
From: "Joseph Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 22:28:28 600
Subject: Re: FANFARE magazine?
Chris Koenigsberg (ckk@uchicago.edu) writes:
> FANFARE magazine is going to review my computer music CD "Brains" in their
> May/June 1995 issue. Do any of you ever read this magazine? It's the world's
> most widely circulated magazine about classical music, or something like tha
t?
> It's available on newsstands everywhere, I guess.
Congratulations! FANFARE does intelligent, informed reviews of the
stuff that I read reviews of, that is, Cage, Feldman, Glass, et al.
I usually thumb through copies at the Austin Tower Records, but I
see it at most large magazine racks I encounter.
> Sorry for the semi-commercial message, I really don't want anyone to even
> remotely suspect/accuse me of "spamming" but someday my small independent ru
n
> of weird music CD's might be valuable collector's items and you on the Net a
re
> the only lucky few people who know about it ....
Those of you who are interested in the far reaches of music might
really go for this; a lot of it might appeal to fans of "Cartridge
Music" and Throbbing Gristle. A lot of sounds you probably have never
heard before, with a strong sense of humor. Not recommended for dogs
or the very nervous, but otherwise worthwhile. I'd give it a
sqrt(-1); it's got a meme, you can twitch to it :-)
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ==== Austin, Texas! \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/Online Liaison, Third Annual Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
------------------------------
From: "Joseph Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 22:19:42 600
Subject: Re: rolywholyover
> What do you think of Rolywholyover, A Circus? This is the catalogue
> to the Cage exhibition at MOCA in LA - a kind of exploded fine art
> book in a shiny metal box. Everyone that I show my copy to gets very
> excited, but I've seen no reviews or reactions from musicians and
> artists from further afield.
I wasn't aware this was published yet! What's the publishing info?
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ==== Austin, Texas! \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/Online Liaison, Third Annual Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
------------------------------
From: "Jerry L Young" <jerry_l_young@riscgate.sps.mot.com>
Date: 21 Dec 1994 07:38:19 U
Subject: Re: Dancing About Architect
Reply to: RE>>Dancing About Architect
Me>>
Joe Zitt>
>> Also, has there ever turned up a videotape or kinescope of Cage on "I've
Got
>> a Secret?" doing "WaterWalk?"
>
>"I've Got a Secret"?!
Yes. When I learned about this, it had not been in such distant history and I
am pretty sure I saw this. I seem to remember that there was something set up
backstage and at the end of the program, the contestants went backstage to
wander around in it. Somehow the image of John Cage sitting next to Gary
Moore in this familiar set seems like an unlikely image -- like the album
cover that Salvador Dali did for Jackie Gleason.
The date of the I've Got a Secret appearance was Jan. 1960, according to the
old Edition Peters monograph. -- my copy is very old (1962). Was it ever
updated? It's interesting to read through this -- it gives performance
details of a lot of early performance. One particularly tantalizing entry for
Winter Music led by Berio in May 1962. Two of the performers listed -- Philip
Lesh and Tom Constanten -- later became members of the Grateful Dead. Berio
and Lukas Foss played the piece a few weeks later.
>Nope, but I do have a transcript of Cage's appearance on "Lascio o
>Raddoppia" in 1958. It's in an Italian book/magazine which may be an
>issue of "Sonora" (I can't quite tell; my Italian is week). It also
>contains a CD containing version of "Ryoanji", "Two", and others
>(maddenly, it can't play on any CD player I have), and (to completely
>wander off topic) the most complete Cage bibli/disc/vide/ography I've
>ever seen (which, BTW, says that "The Beatles 1962-1970" was composed
>in 1990).
Do you have information on how to get this?
Jerry
------------------------------
From: "Joseph Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 13:45:36 600
Subject: Re: Dancing About Architecture
"Jerry L Young" <jerry_l_young@riscgate.sps.mot.com> writes:
>> Joe Zitt>
> >Nope, but I do have a transcript of Cage's appearance on "Lascio o
> >Raddoppia" in 1958. It's in an Italian book/magazine which may be an
> >issue of "Sonora" (I can't quite tell; my Italian is week)
>
> Do you have information on how to get this?
I got mine in a small record store in Philadelphia. Here's what I am
guessing is the useful info:
Itinerari Oltre Il Suono
John Cage
Sommario
a cura di Giampiero Bigazzi
(c) Materiali Sonori Edizioni Musicalli snc., corso Italia, 74 -
52027 S.Giovanni Valdarno
Sonora, Intenerari Oltre Il Suono
via Trieste 35, 52027, San Giovanni Valdarno, Italia
tel. 055.9120363/9122700/943888 - fax, 055.9120370
Distribuzione: Materiali Sonori scari
Distribuzione in Italia: Good Stuff, Roma
Distribuzione nelle librere: Joo Distribution, Milano
(or, since we're both in Austin, you could borrow my copy.)
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ==== Austin, Texas! \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/Online Liaison, Third Annual Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
------------------------------
From: smoliar@iss.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 20:06:42 +0800
Subject: Dancing About Architect
Me>> = Jerry L. Young
>
>Me>>
>Joe Zitt>
>
>>> Also, has there ever turned up a videotape or kinescope of Cage on "I've
>Got
>>> a Secret?" doing "WaterWalk?"
>>
>>"I've Got a Secret"?!
>
>Yes. When I learned about this, it had not been in such distant history and I
>am pretty sure I saw this. I seem to remember that there was something set up
>backstage and at the end of the program, the contestants went backstage to
>wander around in it.
I just went back to consult Calvin Tomkins' essay in THE BRIDE AND THE
BACHELORS. This all sounds like a somewhat distorted account of Cage's
appearance on LASCIA O RADDOPPIA. When Cage appeared as a contestant on
this program, he agreed to perform one of his compositions before answering
his questions each week that he appeared. WATER WALK was a theater piece whic
h
he composed for his second appearance. This was a very intricate piece
involving precise timing in manipulating a large number of objects--hardly
the sort of piece which could be performed by other contestants. Since WATER
WALK was composed explicitly for this Italian television appearance, I am not
sure if it was ever performed again.
Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science
National University of Singapore; Heng Mui Keng Terrace
Kent Ridge, SINGAPORE 0511
Internet: smoliar@iss.nus.sg
FAX: +65-473-9897
------------------------------
From: "Jerry L Young" <jerry_l_young@riscgate.sps.mot.com>
Date: 27 Dec 1994 09:04:15 U
Subject: Whittling about Speculating
Reply to: Whittling about Speculating
Stephen Smoliar expresses his doubts:
Me: even multiples of >
Joe Zitt: >>>
Stephen Smoliar: >
>>>> Also, has there ever turned up a videotape or kinescope of Cage on "I've
>>>>Got a Secret?" doing "WaterWalk?"
>>>
>>>"I've Got a Secret"?!
>>
>>Yes. When I learned about this, it had not been in such distant history and
I
>>am pretty sure I saw this. I seem to remember that there was something set
up
>>backstage and at the end of the program, the contestants went backstage to
>>wander around in it.
>I just went back to consult Calvin Tomkins' essay in THE BRIDE AND THE
>BACHELORS. This all sounds like a somewhat distorted account of Cage's
>appearance on LASCIA O RADDOPPIA. When Cage appeared as a contestant on
>this program, he agreed to perform one of his compositions before answering
>his questions each week that he appeared. WATER WALK was a theater piece
which
>he composed for his second appearance. This was a very intricate piece
>involving precise timing in manipulating a large number of objects--hardly
>the sort of piece which could be performed by other contestants.
You should have read the rest of my post before you ran to your copy of
Tomkins' book. I don't mean for this to be a flame on this gentle, fledgling
list, but I don't mind your detecting this post being a little warm to the
touch. Your post sounds like a somewhat distorted reading of my last note (or
perhaps a distorted writing of my last note that didn't take into account
what you might infer from my use of the word"contestants" I tend not to think
of musicians as contestants except for in a few pieces by Xenakis or Zorn or
a few others, and in the context of "I've Got a Secret" I somehow thought
there was some sort of gravitational pull that would make it clear that I
meant the four contestants on "I've Got a Secret" and not performers in
Water Walk. (For the same reason that if i said "linemen" in the context of a
discussion about football you would more likely think of the guys with the
helmets than the folks who painted the stripes). Can't name all four of the
regular I've Got a Secret contestants with certainty, but I am sure that
Harry Morgan was one and I think Audrey Meadows and Bill Cullen were also.
This was a favorite show in my family while I was growing up -- along with
What's My Line and To Tell the Truth.
Some collateral, which you may skip.
To give you a bit of background, sometimes the "secret" would involve some
little demonstration -- I remember one in which they one guest showed how a
light beam could be used to switch something on and off. Garry Moore broke
the beam with his hand and the picture on the screen went blank. They made it
seem like television history, so I paid close attention. Another time a guest
brought some superviscous material that could be made to flow upwards (once
you started pouring it you could move the cup that was receiving the material
above the one from which it was being poured and it would continue to flow
upwards). It was pretty neat and evidently memorable stuff. But I also
remember one show where they had some very strange artistic installation
backstage done by some artist and at the end of the show everyone went
backstage. It all seemed pretty strange to me, and I have wondered if it was
the episode that Cage was on (in January of 1962). I became interested in
Cage about six years later.
For what it's worth, my memory of what may have been seeing this was at my
Grandmother's house in Illinois, whom we would visit only at Christmas and
during summer vacation. When I checked the Peters catalog a couple of weeks
ago I noticed that it said the show aired in Jan 1962, and it is curious to
note that because of a blizzard and my mother's fear of driving through the
Appalachian Mountains in snow that we were stranded in Illinois for so long
that we had to enroll in school and left at the end of January. Anyway, this
is of some interest to me, and I would love to see the original show to see
if it is what I remember. You can see why that might amuse me.
End of personal recollections.
Anyway, I belabor this point because you expressed skepticism about Cage
being on "I've Got a Secret." I'm not sure why your skepticism should matter
to me, but it does. And besides, those rare visits of our "avant-garde" to
popular culture seem to stick out as noteworthy -- like Dali's cover for
Jackie Gleason's album "Lonesime Echo."
>Since WATER
>WALK was composed explicitly for this Italian television appearance, I am
not
>sure if it was ever performed again.
Let me indulge just one little sizzle here. We suffered a month here in
"Silence" reading people proclaim their "not being sure" of who originally
made the statement about "dancing about architecture." I will admit to you
that I would have prefered silence from Silence. Stephen. I've read your
insightful and informed commentary here and elsewhere (this is not sarcasm)
about Cage, Cunningham, and other stuff that interests me a lot, but it
surprises me that you would go to the trouble of responding with "I am not
sure if it was ever performed again" -- especially in the face of my citation
(deleted from your response). Or did that little reference not actually make
it into my post (along with my citing the odd little tidbit in the catalog
about Berio leading a performance of Winter Music at Mills College in 1962
that included two pianists who later were in the Grateful Dead? If so I will
name the reference again -- The little catalog/monograph Peters and Henmar
published in 1962.
In that catalog and under "Water Walk," there are references not only to the
Italian game show appearance but also on "I've Got A Secret' and on a local
program that Harry Morgan hosted in NYC -- I don't remember offhand if his
show was a radio show or a TV show -- but we can always look it up. I also
remember shows in which Harry Morgan excused himself because he already knew
who the guest was. Perhaps this was one of them. By the way. Morgan seemed to
be an interesting guy, despite the fact that he was a '50s/'60s TV
personality. It would be interesting to see whether he mentions Cage in any
of his books (or if the appearance is mentioned in books about I've Got a
Secret").
Now on to better things,
Jerry
------------------------------
End of silence-digest V1 #2
***************************
Date sent: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 01:27:33 -0600
From: owner-silence-digest@bga.com
To: silence-digest@bga.com
Subject: silence-digest V1 #3
Send reply to: silence@bga.com
silence-digest Monday, 2 January 1995 Volume 01 : Number 003
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Allen <STRANGE@SJSUVM1.sjsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 94 08:02:06 PST
Subject: Re: Whittling about Speculating
I believe the 4th person on the What's My Line was Dorothy Killgalen (spelling
?). I'm sure John would get a great kick from these conversations.
Allen Strange
------------------------------
From: pnr@po.CWRU.Edu (Peter N. Risser)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 12:20:40 -0500
Subject: IChing
I'm reading Cage's biography by David Revill and it says on page 132 the
following:
At no point did he seriously consider replacing [the I-Ching] with a
random number generator. "I have confidence in the I-Ching. It's the
oldest book in the world." His confidence is, he admitted, "a value
system, but based on nothing more positive in me than sentimentality...
I'm full of these inconsistencies and see no reason why I shouldn't be."
The quote is attributed to an interview from _Panorama-Chicago Daily News_,
May 10, 1969.
So there, in his own words I suppose is the answer I was looking for.
I'm enjoying reading this biograhy, for even if the writing style is not
the greatest, it's nice to know what was going on behind the scenes so to
speak; to get a little history of the times, etc.
Does anyone know how accurate the portrayal is? It sounds like he had
Cage's help and blessing for a while.
Also, can anyone recommend a recording of the Three Dances for Two Prepared
Pianos? One dance or movement of a dance is on the Koch International Cage
tribute and I'd like to hear the others.
- --
By hearing such music, seemingly so much noise, !
when I actually came upon noise in reality, ! Peter Risse
I found that I had gone up over it. ! pnr@po.cwru.ed
-- William Carlos Williams on John Cage !
------------------------------
From: James Pritchett <Jamesp@pgi.petersons.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 94 12:30:00 EST
Subject: David Revill's book
David Revill's book drew heavily upon various other people's work (including
my own), frequently without attribution (his discussion of the compositional
techniques of the early 1950s is entirely taken from my dissertation, which
he somehow "forgot" to list in the notes and bibliography). The book,
needless to say, is not well thought of in the Cage-studies community
(neither is Revill).
James Pritchett
jamesp@pgi.petersons.com
------------------------------
From: "Jerry L Young" <jerry_l_young@riscgate.sps.mot.com>
Date: 27 Dec 1994 11:32:59 U
Subject: Re: IChing
Reply to: RE>IChing
Peter Risser asks:
>Also, can anyone recommend a recording of the Three Dances for Two
>Prepared Pianos? One dance or movement of a dance is on the Koch
>International Cage tribute and I'd like to hear the others.
You might like the recording on Attacca Babel disc with Gerard Bouwhuis and
Cees van Zeeland. It also has a 2-piano arrangement of Stravinsky's "Agon,"
which is nice to hear in this barebones arrangement, and an arrangement of
Louis Andriessen's "De Staat."
Jerry Young
------------------------------
From: Bob Kosovsky <kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 13:24:24 EST
Subject: RE: David Revill's book
James Pritchett <Jamesp@pgi.petersons.com> writes:
>David Revill's book drew heavily upon various other people's work (including
>my own), frequently without attribution (his discussion of the compositional
>techniques of the early 1950s is entirely taken from my dissertation, which
>he somehow "forgot" to list in the notes and bibliography). The book,
>needless to say, is not well thought of in the Cage-studies community
>(neither is Revill).
I just want to second this opinion. I'm currently working on a
Cage project (of which you'll hear more about, soon), and Revill's lack of
documentation of certain facts is incredibly frustrating. You're not sure
whether to think that he divulged his own insights or whether he lifted them
from unnamed sources. And the manner of "endnotes" (not to give a
reference number but to just list the page number and phrase at the
back of the book) strikes me as incredibly stupid and bothersome (though
it's probably the fault of the publisher).
RE: Architecture: I've seen the quote, and it IS by Cage - but I'd have
to hunt around to find it.
RE: Xenia - can NO ONE out there tell me what gallery or museum with
which she was associated? Thanks.
Bob Kosovsky
Student, PhD Program in Music
Librarian
Graduate Center
Music Division
City University of New York
The New York Public Library
kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
kosovsky@nyplgate.nypl.org
- -------My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions----
---
------------------------------
From: "Joseph Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 13:51:03 600
Subject: Three Dances for Two Prepared Pianos
pnr@po.CWRU.Edu (Peter N. Risser) writes:
> Also, can anyone recommend a recording of the Three Dances for Two Prepared
> Pianos? One dance or movement of a dance is on the Koch International Cage
> tribute and I'd like to hear the others.
The version on "A Chance Operation" is ... um ... curious. To do it,
Patrick Moraz used a MIDI sequencer trigger prepared piano samples.
Ingenious, and it sounds good, but it seems like a point has been
missed.
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ==== Austin, Texas! \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/Online Liaison, Third Annual Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
------------------------------
From: kparks@its.brooklyn.cuny.edu (Kevin Parks --staff music)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 94 20:45:51 EST
Subject: Re: David Revill's book
Yes, the David Revill is really crappy, I disliked it a great deal.
I forced myself to read most of it, and i must say that i learned next
to nothing new buy reading it. I really hated the thing, for reasons
greater than it's generally feeble literary style. Most of the interesting
things are taken from other places and just recast in a most uninteresting man
ner.
Just read Silence, and all the other primary sources. James Pritchett's
book is really the only good one outside of Cage' own stuff. In fact, Pritche
tt's
is an excellent read in many ways. I enh
enjoyed it very much. We'll see what Mark Swed does soon.
I see that 101 is do out one mode some time soon - can't wait.
If it is anything like 103 we're in for a real treat. 103 is one of the
greatest orchestra pieces i have ever heard in my life (how's that)!
Cheers all - sorry about all the typos but my modem is too slow and i am
too lazy to go back and make this all look pretty.
kevin parks
------------------------------
From: "Joseph Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 1994 20:57:22 600
Subject: Cage Text Online?
This may just be addled memory of a garbled story, but...
I remembered hearing about ten years ago that Cage had published a
text via the Well rather than hardcopy so that the text would be more
accessible to people. Is this true? What was the text? Is it
available to people not on the Well?
If it is, and we can get at it, I'll try to put a link to it on my
web page.
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ==== Austin, Texas! \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/Online Liaison, Third Annual Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
------------------------------
From: "Jerry L Young" <jerry_l_young@riscgate.sps.mot.com>
Date: 27 Dec 1994 22:27:55 U
Subject: Water Walk
Reply to: Water Walk
The Edition Peters Catalog (titled "John Cage") lists three performances of
Water Walk all for televsion -- one in Milan, Jan 1959, the second on the
Henry Morgan Show, June 1959, and the third on I've Got A Secret, Jan. 1960.
Earlier I had remembered incorrectly that the performance was in 1962.
In the notes for the piece provided in the catalog, Cage says that the
materials for the tape used in the performance are the same as for Fontana
Mix and that Water Walk led to his composing the Theater Piece.He reassures
us that "the large number of properties required is easily available given
the facilities of a television broadcasting company." Duration is 3 minutes.
Earlier I said Harry Morgan earlier meaning instead to say Henry. Harry
Morgan was of course famous back then for being Pete on December Bride and
Pete and Gladys and later Col. Potter on M.A.S.H. Henry was a good deal more
irascible.
Jerry
------------------------------
From: smoliar@iss.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 13:19:54 +0800
Subject: Whittling about Speculating
Why do I get the feeling that Jerry Young doth protest a bit too much over my
response to his account of "I've Got a Secret?" I must admit that I was more
than a little baffled over his reference to a "monograph" from Peters. It too
k
a while for my feeble little brain to figure out that he was talking about the
Peters catalogue. (Wouldn't it be nice if that were now updated to the time o
f
Cage's death? Well, I suppose a lot of other equally valuable things would be
nice, too.)
Once I was clear on Jerry's source, I was able to confirm that three
performances of "Water Walk" were recorded. These were all on television,
since the work IS, as the catalogue says, a "solo television performance."
The first performance was in Italy--the appearance on LASCIA O RADDOPIA for
which the work was composed. The second occurred half a year later, in June
of 1959, on the "Henry Morgan Show," which was then airing on Channel 13. The
"I've Got a Secret" performance took place in January of 1960, or so says the
Peters catalogue. So I am not too sure how this all jives with Jerry being at
his grandmother's house during the great blizzard of January 1962. Also, sinc
e
the work is a solo piece with very demanding timing requirements (as Calvin
Tomkins observed), I really wonder whether or not the "I've Got a Secret"
panelists actually performed the work. Given that the piece is only three
minutes long, it is more likely that Cage performed it, after which everyone
got to play around with all the properties he had assembled. I suppose the
best way to check this out would be to see if The Museum of Broadcasting has
a recording of that program, which is a bit tricky for me at this distance.
(Bob, you seem a bit more strategically placed to resolve this one!)
Henry Morgan, by the way, had a very sharp wit and may have even had an
intellect to match it. I would be curious as to whether or not he allowed
the performance of "Water Walk" as an object of ridicule. My guess is that
he did not. He may even have been the influence that led to it being performe
d
one final time for "I've Got a Secret."
As long as we are stumbling down Memory Lane, my own fondest memory is of the
night that Seji Ozawa appeared before the panel of "What's My Line?" I really
kicked myself for not recognizing his name when he signed in. He was
Bernstein's assistant at the time and had even appeared on one of the
Children's Concert broadcasts, unless I am mistaken.
Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science
National University of Singapore; Heng Mui Keng Terrace
Kent Ridge, SINGAPORE 0511
Internet: smoliar@iss.nus.sg
FAX: +65-473-9897
------------------------------
From: smoliar@iss.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 19:20:05 +0800
Subject: IChing
Peter N. Risser writes:
>
>I'm reading Cage's biography by David Revill and it says on page 132 the
>following:
>
> At no point did he seriously consider replacing [the I-Ching] with a
> random number generator. "I have confidence in the I-Ching. It's the
> oldest book in the world." His confidence is, he admitted, "a value
> system, but based on nothing more positive in me than sentimentality...
> I'm full of these inconsistencies and see no reason why I shouldn't be."
>
>The quote is attributed to an interview from _Panorama-Chicago Daily News_,
>May 10, 1969.
>
>So there, in his own words I suppose is the answer I was looking for.
>
>Does anyone know how accurate the portrayal is?
Notwithstanding at least two of the critical observations about Revill, there
is also the problem of the timing of this interview. It is just too close to
the HPSCHD experience. Thus, it precedes those instances previously cited of
Cage using computer output. In other words the answer at this particular poin
t
in time just does not generalize to much of Cage's subsequent work.
>
>Also, can anyone recommend a recording of the Three Dances for Two Prepared
>Pianos?
I happen to like the performance by Joshua Pierce and Dorothy Jonas on the
second volume of the Wergo collection, but then I am pretty happy with the
entire Wergo collection.
Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science
National University of Singapore; Heng Mui Keng Terrace
Kent Ridge, SINGAPORE 0511
Internet: smoliar@iss.nus.sg
FAX: +65-473-9897
------------------------------
From: "Jerry L Young" <jerry_l_young@riscgate.sps.mot.com>
Date: 28 Dec 1994 09:41:25 U
Subject: Re: Whittling about Speculat
Reply to: RE>Whittling about Speculating
Steve asks rhetorically
>Why do I get the feeling that Jerry Young doth protest a bit too much over
my
>response to his account of "I've Got a Secret?"
Dammit Steve, I protest because you dismissed my pointing up the fact that
Cage was on I've got a Secret as a distortion of an excerpt from Calvin
Tomkins book and because you persist in suggesting that i am silly enough to
have asserted that Henry Morgan, and the other I've Got a Secret contestants
performed Water Walk.
But you are halfway there -- you now realize that he was on the show and that
Water Walk was performed, as i had said, but you are still confused in
thinking that I believe that the four celebrity contestants actually
performed the work (despite my attempt to set you straight in my last post) .
So, dang it, I must protest too much some more. Hope I'll be done soon, as I
feel our fellow listmembers will be happy not to hear more from me on this.
You said
>Also, since
>the work is a solo piece with very demanding timing requirements (as Calvin
>Tomkins observed), I really wonder whether or not the "I've Got a Secret"
>panelists actually performed the work. Given that the piece is only three
>minutes long, it is more likely that Cage performed it, after which everyone
>got to play around with all the properties he had assembled. I suppose the
>best way to check this out would be to see if The Museum of Broadcasting has
>a recording of that program, which is a bit tricky for me at this distance.
>(Bob, you seem a bit more strategically placed to resolve this one!)
I still didn't notice anyone here suggesting that those four celebrity
contestants actually played Water Walk. I'll take my best shot at guessing
how you came by this misapprehension. In the part of my post that you copied
in your first response, I wrote the following:
>I seem to remember that there was something set up
>backstage and at the end of the program, the contestants went backstage to
>wander around in it.
If this is in fact responsible for your confusion, don't read "contestants"
as "musicians" and don't read "wander around in it" as "performed the piece."
Looking forward to not finding myself at odds with you over this but of
silliness.
Jerry
------------------------------
From: Josh Ronsen <rons@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 23:26:56 -0600
Subject: Cage Brutally Taunted on MST3k! Thrice!!!
I have been keeping track of every instance I see of those meta-movie
guys at Mystery Science Theatre 3000 poking fun at, let's face it:
mocking, John Cage. So far, I have observed three seperate instances:
(for those of you not in the know, MST3k is about two mad scientists
who send an innocent guy into space and force him to watch cheesy
movies. The guy rebels by building intelligent robots who assist him
in launching a tirade of abusive comments at the movies as they watch
them.)
1) A mummified alien is hiding in the boiler room of a college campus.
A guy goes down to the boiler room and hears the mummy knock over some
boxes or chains. COMMENT: "I didn't realize they were having the John
Cage concert in the boiler room!"
2) A jazz pianist, who has murdered his sweetie, is distraught over
his sweetie's ghost coming back to haunt him. At one point he
violently slams his fist on his piano keyboard, producing a
dissonance. COMMENT: "Oh, so you studied under John Cage."
3) As a guy is looking at some records on a bookshelf, alien creatures
hiding in the basement begin to make odd chirping/buzzing noise.
COMMENT: "Maybe if I find something catchy they will take off the John
Cage record..."
I can't remember any of the names of these movies, except 1) might be
called "Mummy From Mars/Space". I will be on the lookout for any more
of this mocking.
- -Josh
rons@midway.uchicago
------------------------------
From: amanue!jr@vax.cs.pitt.edu (Jim Rosenberg)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 1994 00:29:54 -40962758 (EST)
Subject: Re: Cage Text Online?
Joseph Zitt (jzitt@humansystems.com) writes:
> I remembered hearing about ten years ago that Cage had published a
> text via the Well rather than hardcopy so that the text would be more
> accessible to people. Is this true? What was the text?
Yes, this is true. The text is called "The First Meeting of the Satie
Society". The WELL began by offering its own conferencing system, and USENET
and Internet access followed later; the Satie Society piece was made available
through the ACEN (ArtCom Electronic Network) conference. I waited to answer
this message to check to see if it is still there, and it is. If you have
an account on The WELL, enter the PicoSpan conferencing system (if that is
not your default shell) join the acen conference, go to the Art Gallery, and
it will be #1 on the menu.
> Is it available to people not on the Well?
I'm afraid I don't know the definitive answer to this. The WELL is a paying
system, but has a quite enlightened policy that the poster of information
owns the words. Thus, I would assume the rights to this piece are owned by
John Cage's estate (unless he assigned them at some point.) *Technically* it
should be possible for a WELL user with a home page to link the files from
this piece onto the Web; (unless PicoSpan is running setuid); whether The
WELL a policy on this point I have no idea.
I suggest you E-mail Fred Truck at fjt@well.sf.ca.us and ask about this. I
don't know if he is still active on ACEN, but he is still active on The WELL
and I believe he organized putting this piece on ACEN.
- --
Jim Rosenberg -- cgh!amanue!jr
CIS: 71515,124 UUCP: / / |
WELL: jer dsi.com pitt! ditka!
Internet: amanue!jr@vax.cs.pitt.edu
------------------------------
From: pnr@po.CWRU.Edu (Peter N. Risser)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 12:28:08 -0500
Subject: RE: David Revill's book
Okay, so David lifted a lot of his information from unnamed sources, which
(as we've seen) is likely to piss off said sources. But as a history, how
accurate is it? Should I believe everything (anything) I read?
I agree that reading the source materials is essential, and I have. But
reading Silence doesn't give me the context that the biography gives me.
The one thing that I really like about this biography (and it's not really
this book, but any biography) is that now I'm getting some of the background
behind the works and the person. The book helps place the story in time
and gives all the events a context.
Is there another, better work that does this?
And while we're on the subject of authors, what's the general consensus
about Richard Kostalanetz?
And one more thing: One day I checked out the scores to both Water Music
and 4'33" from our music school library and graphically they were both very
beautiful. I've always wanted copies of my own. Since then I have moved
away and have not been able to find copies. Do any of you have an address
of a publishing company I can write to to order copies of these works for
myself? I would be very happy if you did.
>RE: Architecture: I've seen the quote, and it IS by Cage - but I'd have
>to hunt around to find it.
Ya, but after so many other credits, I need HARD proof.
- --
By hearing such music, seemingly so much noise, !
when I actually came upon noise in reality, ! Peter Risse
I found that I had gone up over it. ! pnr@po.cwru.ed
-- William Carlos Williams on John Cage !
------------------------------
From: smoliar@iss.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 07:27:45 +0800
Subject: RE: David Revill's book
>
>Okay, so David lifted a lot of his information from unnamed sources, which
>(as we've seen) is likely to piss off said sources. But as a history, how
>accurate is it? Should I believe everything (anything) I read?
Being sloppy about your sources is not just a matter of failing to acknowledge
all the right names. If you are going to use a source, good technique obliges
you to furnish not only the WHO but also the WHEN and the WHERE (i.e. the
context in which the material was communicated). Our recent discussion on
Cage's attitude towards computer-generated I CHING consultations is a good
case in point. In the period between the beginning of the HPSCHD project
and the end of his life, Cage went through several major shifts in attitude
towards the computer, not only for making chance decisions but also, in his
late work, for constructing mesostics. To portray Cage as having only a singl
e
attitude is to trivialize, and to ignore the historical context for the
justification of that portrayal is to distort. I suppose, then, that the
bottom line is you should only believe what you can confirm through more
reliable sources (just like any good journalist).
> And while we're on the subject of authors, what's the general consensus
>about Richard Kostalanetz?
>
I remember when his first book (JOHN CAGE) came out. It's primary advantage
was that it was more up-to-date than the Tomkins profile or the Peters Catalog
.
Needless to say, it did not stay up-to-date very long. I remember a
conversation with Cage in 1971 during which he said what he liked least
about the book was that Kostelanetz kept pestering him to talk about what
he DID NOT LIKE. Cage felt it was contrary to his philosophy to do so and
ultimately capitulated with some general remarks about the German people which
I suspect he later regretted. I also have a copy of CONVERSING WITH CAGE but
have not really looked into it yet. My personal feeling is that what we most
need is an update of the Peters Catalog, generalized to include non-Peters
material as well.
> One day I checked out the scores to both Water Music
>and 4'33" from our music school library and graphically they were both very
>beautiful. I've always wanted copies of my own. Since then I have moved
>away and have not been able to find copies. Do any of you have an address
>of a publishing company I can write to to order copies of these works for
>myself?
The most recent Cage score I bought was "Etudes Australes." (I regard finding
this in Singapore as nothing short of a miracle.) This is a 1975 composition,
and the score gives the address of Henmar Press as 373 Park Avenue South, New
York, NY 10016. I have no idea if Henmar still exists at that address or at
any other. I also see that this address was given as the New York address of
C. F. Peters in my copy of WALTZES BY 25 CONTEMPORARY COMPOSERS. My guess is
that Peters still has an office in New York somewhere, even if it is no longer
at this address.
By the way, my copy of "Etudes Australes" has a rather extensive list of
Cage's compositions on the back cover. This list begins "for details see
our Contemporary Music Catalogue." Has anyone seen this? Is Peters keeping
it up to date?
Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science
National University of Singapore; Heng Mui Keng Terrace
Kent Ridge, SINGAPORE 0511
Internet: smoliar@iss.nus.sg
FAX: +65-473-9897
------------------------------
From: "Joseph Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 20:04:29 600
Subject: RE: David Revill's book
> To portray Cage as having only a single
> attitude is to trivialize, and to ignore the historical context for the
> justification of that portrayal is to distort. I suppose, then, that the
> bottom line is you should only believe what you can confirm through more
> reliable sources (just like any good journalist).
That's one thing that really struck me about James Pritchett's book
- -- the idea that Cage changed his mind about things over his long
life, while retrospectively obvious, was one that I hadn't seen
mentioned.
That's the problem I see with Kostelanetz's "Conversing with Cage",
by the way: it hops around interviews and timeframes in a messy
manner (although it does mention in the back where things are from),
creating a sort of postmodern Frankenstein of a text. Good for
mesostics, perhaps, but less so for books one reads for information.
> By the way, my copy of "Etudes Australes" has a rather extensive list of
> Cage's compositions on the back cover. This list begins "for details see
> our Contemporary Music Catalogue." Has anyone seen this? Is Peters keeping
> it up to date?
It is kept up to date, from what I can tell. I got a copy last year
(now off in storage, out of reach) from C F Peters in NYC.
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ==== Austin, Texas! \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/Online Liaison, Third Annual Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
------------------------------
From: kparks@its.brooklyn.cuny.edu (Kevin Parks --staff music)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 95 02:26:34 EST
Subject: RE: David Revill's book
The value of Kostelanetz's "Conversing with Cage"
is that it brings together many interesting snipits
of interviews that are otherwise difficult to find since they are
published in journals. I LOVE the book, it is a great deal of fun.
If your looking for an orderly, scholarly book your looking in the wrong place
.
There isn't even an index. But i have gotten quite a lot out of that book and
i
think that it is sad that is going out of print. It is especially fun to read
in the bathroom or on the subway. And believe me i am the
last one to run to Kostelanetz's defense (don't ask!).
The contemporary catalogue from 1990 is still available from
C.F. Peters and they still have an office in NYC at the park ave south.
address mentioned in the previous posts. But last year Peters
put out a publication brochure that includes just about all of cage's
published scores, their year of composition and their cat #.
It is very good and handy to have. But be sure to get the numerical
price list as well because the prices are not in the brochure.
For those of you folks trying to hunt down Cage scores
just call Patelson's. They dont stock anything (the buyer
who is a real jerk - hates Cage) but they will order anything
you want and since it is all in the Peters catalogue it is
relatively easy to get the stuff within a 3-4 week period.
That is unless Peters has to print it up specially, then it
can take some time.
Joseph Patelson Music House
160 West 56th Street
New York, NY 10019
Phone# (212) 582 - 5840
FAX# (212)246 - 5633 (for you folks overseas)
Just let them know what you want and how you
want it sent (air mail, surface mail for overseas orders,
Within the US they usually send UPS) and give them a
credit card # and your name, address and phone. That's it.
You can Also try Frank's Music in NYC @ (212) 582 - 1999
or Carl Fischer @ (212) 777 - 0900
They will also do mail order.
Heck, you can even order from Peters directly, but you
won't get the 5% discount that you get from Patelson's
Unfortunately i know all this crap because i work part time
at Patelson's (gotta pay the rent!).
Cheers,
kevin parks
The Center for Computer at Brooklyn College
P.S. A question for Mr. Peter Risse: Where does that William Carlos Williams
quote come from? I'd love to know.
P.P.S. OH heck here's the address for Peters:
C.F. Peters Co.
373 Park Avenue South
New York, NY 10016
Phone # (212) 686-4147
Fax # (212) 689-9412
------------------------------
End of silence-digest V1 #3
***************************
Date sent: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:45:35 -0600
From: owner-silence-digest@bga.com
To: silence-digest@bga.com
Subject: silence-digest V1 #4
Send reply to: silence@bga.com
silence-digest Wednesday, 11 January 1995 Volume 01 : Number 004
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pnr@po.CWRU.Edu (Peter N. Risser)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 12:59:46 -0500
Subject: RE: David Revill's book
>The value of Kostelanetz's "Conversing with Cage"
>is that it brings together many interesting snipits
>of interviews that are otherwise difficult to find since they are
>published in journals. I LOVE the book, it is a great deal of fun.
>If your looking for an orderly, scholarly book your looking in the wrong plac
e.
>There isn't even an index. But i have gotten quite a lot out of that book an
d i
>think that it is sad that is going out of print. It is especially fun to rea
d
>in the bathroom or on the subway. And believe me i am the
>last one to run to Kostelanetz's defense (don't ask!).
I agree that as a non-scholar, Kostelanetz's books have helped me get a
hold of all the things I couldn't seem to grasp when I just read Cage's
materials. Again, he helped me put things into context and bring it all
back down to earth. It was nice to be able to read the question and
answers because a lot of people were asking the very questions I wanted to
ask Cage and the answers he gave were in plain English.
Speaking of which, does anyone know of a way that you can get the interview
part of _I-VI_ without having to buy the big expensive book of mesostics
that it is all about? Even a soft copy would be nice.
Just curious.
- --
I'd like to die peacefully in my !
sleep like my grandfather, ! Peter Risser
not screaming in terror ! pnr@po.cwru.edu
like his passengers. !
------------------------------
From: "Joseph Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 14:38:08 600
Subject: Silence Web Page
I've set up a web page for this list at
"http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/Cage/".
It currently contains links to the three existing silence digests,
plus a pseudo-digest I put together from the messages that preceded
the creation of the digest.
I'd like to include any appropriate and legally postable text,
images, etc, that we might get ahold of, as well as any suggestions
for how it might be improved.
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ==== Austin, Texas! \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/Online Liaison, Third Annual Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
------------------------------
From: pnr@po.CWRU.Edu (Peter N. Risser)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 16:17:18 -0500
Subject: Conversations with Cage
Someone mentioned earlier that this book was out of print.
I have a copy i received for Christmas (soft back, though) and it's dated
1994 from Limelight Editions. (Fourth Limelight Edition April 1994).
My mom's not very tricky, so I imagine it can't be too hard to find.
- --
I'd like to die peacefully in my !
sleep like my grandfather, ! Peter Risser
not screaming in terror ! pnr@po.cwru.edu
like his passengers. !
------------------------------
From: saxmania@rci.ripco.com (Sax Therapy)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 19:54:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Silence Web Page
Sometime in the mid 70's Cage was in attendance at a performance of one
of his works at Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois. After the
concert there was a reception and I got to speak with Cage and ask him
a few questions. I've got this short interview on cassette somewhere in
my disorganized tape archives. As soon as I locate it, I would like to
transcribe it and post it to this list. Or, if someone would be interested
in volunteering to do the transcribing, I would send them a copy of the
tape.
- --
_ \/ _ _ _ \ / s a u l s m a i z y s
S /=\/\ | |-| e R /-\ P | vox[312]907.8229 fax[312]907.8521
+ + m a k i n g s a x e s w e l l a d j u s t e d s i n c e 1 9 7 5 + +
web page http://ripco.com:8080/~saxmania/A.html
------------------------------
From: smoliar@iss.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:47:53 +0800
Subject: Silence Web Page
>
>I've set up a web page for this list at
>"http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/Cage/".
>
>It currently contains links to the three existing silence digests,
>plus a pseudo-digest I put together from the messages that preceded
>the creation of the digest.
>
Joe,
My two attempts to read the most recent digest both threw my Macintosh (runnin
g
NCSA Mosaic) into a hung state which required a fresh boot; forgive me if I
keep my distance until things are a bit more robust!
Steve
------------------------------
From: "Joseph Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 23:23:03 600
Subject: Re: Silence Web Page
smoliar@iss.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar) writes:
> My two attempts to read the most recent digest both threw my Macintosh (runn
ing
> NCSA Mosaic) into a hung state which required a fresh boot; forgive me if I
> keep my distance until things are a bit more robust!
Please let me know if you find out what caused this. It contains very
simple HTML (only TITLE, HEAD, BODY, and PRE elements). It works OK
under Windows Netscape.
Anyone else having problems/success with it? Let me know (I've
directed responses to this post to go to me rather than the list to
reduce the bandwidth a flurry of these to the list might cause).
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ==== Austin, Texas! \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/Online Liaison, Third Annual Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
------------------------------
From: saxmania@rci.ripco.com (Sax Therapy)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 00:15:04 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Silence Web Page
>
> smoliar@iss.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar) writes:
>
> > My two attempts to read the most recent digest both threw my Macintosh (ru
nning
> > NCSA Mosaic) into a hung state which required a fresh boot; forgive me if
I
> > keep my distance until things are a bit more robust!
>
I'm curious, what version of Mosaic are you running and do you have a slip
connection to the Internet? I tried using Mosaic with TIA and found it very
slow. MacWeb was a little better but if you can do without the graphics Lynx
is the quickest way around.
- --
_ \/ _ _ _ \ / s a u l s m a i z y s
S /=\/\ | |-| e R /-\ P | vox[312]907.8229 fax[312]907.8521
+ + m a k i n g s a x e s w e l l a d j u s t e d s i n c e 1 9 7 5 + +
web page http://ripco.com:8080/~saxmania/A.html
------------------------------
From: "Jerry L Young" <jerry_l_young@riscgate.sps.mot.com>
Date: 3 Jan 1995 10:59:33 U
Subject: Re: David Revill's book
Reply to: RE>>David Revill's book
Stephen W. Smoliar asks,
>By the way, my copy of "Etudes Australes" has a rather extensive list of
>Cage's compositions on the back cover. This list begins "for details see
>our Contemporary Music Catalogue." Has anyone seen this? Is Peters keeping
>it up to date?
If we are talking about the same thing, I have a couple of these from the
'70s and maybe the early '80s. I don't know if they have kept this up to
date. If I remember rightly, the format changed over the years from more of a
paperback bound book (along the lines of that 1962 monograph/catalog devoted
to Cage with interviews, commentary, and list of publications) to a less
expensively produced (saddle-stitched) but much larger affair. Several
(Most?) of the folks published by Peters write something about their music
along with the catalog entries for the works published by Peters. Not sure
where mine are, but I'll try to dig them out.
Jerry
------------------------------
From: smoliar@iss.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:22:23 +0800
Subject: Silence Web Page
>>
>> smoliar@iss.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar) writes:
>>
>> > My two attempts to read the most recent digest both threw my Macintosh
>> > (running
>> > NCSA Mosaic) into a hung state which required a fresh boot; forgive me i
f
>> > I
>> > keep my distance until things are a bit more robust!
>>
>I'm curious, what version of Mosaic are you running and do you have a slip
>connection to the Internet?
For the record, I am running NCSAMosaic200A17.68k. I do not need a SLIP
connection to the Internet because I have my own TCP connection with my
own IP number. This version has been pretty robust (until now).
Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science
National University of Singapore; Heng Mui Keng Terrace
Kent Ridge, SINGAPORE 0511
Internet: smoliar@iss.nus.sg
FAX: +65-473-9897
------------------------------
From: Tom Marazita <toad@eci1.ucsb.edu>
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 09:53:47 PST
Subject: Re: Cage Brutally Taunted on MST3k! Thrice!!!
rons@midway.uchicago whines:
> I can't remember any of the names of these movies, except 1)
> might be called "Mummy From Mars/Space". I will be on the
> lookout for any more of this mocking.
I too pay close attention to the Cage references on this show.
It appears to me that someone involved with the writing is a
pretty big fan of Cage, and of 20th Century composition in
general. Let's just hope it's not "TV's Frank" though; he's
leaving the show in the very near future (or so I've read over on
alt.tv.mst3k).
Tom
===========================================================================
Tom Marazita
| Center for Computational Sciences and Engineering
| 3107 Engineering 1
postmaster@ucsb.edu
| University of California
Tel: 805 893-3221
| Santa Barbara, CA 93106
===========================================================================
------------------------------
From: "Josh Ronsen" <yoshi@arion.com>
Date: 5 Jan 1995 12:58:40 -0600
Subject: postpost
Why did Cage repeatedly refer to Sylvia Fort as "the black dancer Sylvia
Fort"? Maragret Len Teng echoes this discription in the notes to her
"Daughters of the Lonesome Isle" CD. Is there a particular reason why Sylvia
Fort is described as a "black" dancer? This reference always intrigues/annoys
me whenever I read it.
And another question, not directly related to the above: why does composer
and musician Anthony Braxton call Cage a "racist" in G. Locke's FORCES IN
MOTION (first pg of Ch 4, I think). Braxton does not elaborate, but he must
have some reason for this statement, especially in light of Braxton's rather
large appreciation of Cage's music.
Any thought on either of these?
Josh
yoshi@arion.com
------------------------------
From: grossmj@spot.Colorado.EDU
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 13:18:11 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Cage Brutally Taunted on MST3k! Thrice!!!
The one about the jazz piano player is called "Tormented", starring Richard
Carlson.
But all in all, I've noticed more Frank Zappa references in MST3K.
Joe G.
------------------------------
From: grossmj@spot.Colorado.EDU
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 13:27:07 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: postpost
I'm a little hazy about this, but I understand there was some kind of dis-
agreement between Cage and Anthony Davis at a conference at Telluride a few
years back, the subject involving Davis' opera "X" about Malcolm X. And
Davis has played with Braxton. Again, I don't know details, maybe someone
else does?
Joe G.
------------------------------
From: James Pritchett <Jamesp@pgi.petersons.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 95 16:31:00 EST
Subject: RE: postpost
>Why did Cage repeatedly refer to Sylvia Fort as "the black dancer Sylvia
>Fort"? Maragret Len Teng echoes this discription in the notes to her
>"Daughters of the Lonesome Isle" CD. Is there a particular reason why
Sylvia
>Fort is described as a "black" dancer? This reference always
intrigues/annoys
>me whenever I read it.
Syvilla (not Sylvia) Fort's importance in the context of Cage's work is as
the dancer for whom the first prepared piano piece was written --
"Bacchanale". Her dance supposedly had African overtones, which is in part
why Cage wanted to write a percussion piece for its accompaniment. Not
having the space for a percussion ensemble, he invented the prepared piano
as a one-man percussion orchestra. I suppose that he always referred to her
as a "black dancer" because, in the context of the story, it seems relevant.
Also, I would guess that in the late 1930s a black modern dancer in Spokane
would be a rarity (I could be wrong on that, though). I don't remember how
I referred to her in my book, but I remember trying to steer clear of the
"black dancer" formulation.
James Pritchett
------------------------------
From: "Joseph Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 17:37:18 600
Subject: RE: postpost
James Pritchett <Jamesp@pgi.petersons.com> writes:
> Also, I would guess that in the late 1930s a black modern dancer in Spokane
> would be a rarity (I could be wrong on that, though). I don't remember how
> I referred to her in my book, but I remember trying to steer clear of the
> "black dancer" formulation.
Here's the reference from James's book:
"The story, recounted by him in "How the Piano Came to Be Prepared".
begins in 1940 with the request by Syvilla Fort, a dancer at the
Cornish School for music to accompany her dance _Bacchanale_. The
piece needed to reflect the African theme of the dance, and hence
Cage wished to use percussion instruments."
He points out in notes some problems with the story, but says it's
probably close to accurate. (Did I summarize that OK?)
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ==== Austin, Texas! \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/Online Liaison, Third Annual Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
------------------------------
From: James Pritchett <Jamesp@pgi.petersons.com>
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 95 14:32:00 EST
Subject: RE: postpost
Joe asks:
> (Did I summarize that OK?)
Yup. Thanks for filling in the details. The problems with Cage's story
about Bacchanale all relate to the dating of the piece -- did he write it in
1938 or 1940? Like I say in the book, it really doesn't matter very much,
and I don't think we'll ever know for sure.
James
------------------------------
From: pnr@po.CWRU.Edu (Peter N. Risser)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 09:14:33 -0500
Subject: Re: postpost
>Why did Cage repeatedly refer to Sylvia Fort as "the black dancer Sylvia
>Fort"? Maragret Len Teng echoes this discription in the notes to her
>"Daughters of the Lonesome Isle" CD. Is there a particular reason why Sylvia
>Fort is described as a "black" dancer? This reference always intrigues/annoys
>me whenever I read it.
Historically, it is important that she was black, because she helped break
down color barriers being one of the first black dancers, etc.
But to continually refer to her as the "black dancer Sylvia Fort" outside
of any historical context eventually makes no more sense than to
continually refer to Cage as the "gay composer John Cage". I imagine it's
one of those things that a person doesn't think about until someone points
it out to them. I have no doubt that Cage would agree that the label was
unnecessary.
- --
I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep !
like my grandfather, ! Peter Risser
not screaming in terror ! pnr@po.cwru.edu
like his passengers. !
------------------------------
From: "Windsor Viney" <wviney@acs.ucalgary.ca>
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 95 9:20:07 MST
Subject: Ms. Fort's name
It seems to me that Ms. Fort's name was not "Sylvia," but
something like "Syvilla." Sorry to be so vague, but it's been
many years since I read the actual remarks in Cage's writings
(which I no longer have to hand).
Can anyone out there straighten me out on this point -- it seems
to me a good policy to check what one *thinkone remembers from
time to time, memory being what it is (though Cage's, as I recall
<g>, was prodigious).
Windsor Viney
wviney@acs.ucalgary.com
------------------------------
From: "Windsor Viney" <wviney@acs.ucalgary.ca>
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 95 9:38:28 MST
Subject: Re: Ms. Fort's name
Regarding my previous message: I gave a wrong e-mail address under
my name (almost worse than misspelling one's own name -- I've
done *that* from time to time, too). Should be
wviney@acs.ucalgary.ca
Sorry for the wasted bandwidth.
Windsor Viney
------------------------------
From: Olivia_MATTIS@umail.umd.edu (om4)
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 95 11:32 EST
Subject: Lecture on Nothing
Does anybody know if the "Lecture on Nothing" was delivered to the Eighth
Street Artists Club in New York exactly as it appears in _Silence_? The
blurb given above the text in _Silence_ leaves some ambiguity about this.
I'm working right now on music and Abstract Expressionism, and this factoid
is very important to me.
Olivia Mattis
University of Maryland at College Park
------------------------------
From: James Pritchett <Jamesp@pgi.petersons.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 95 12:11:00 EST
Subject: RE: Lecture on Nothing
> Does anybody know if the "Lecture on Nothing" was delivered to the Eighth
> Street Artists Club in New York exactly as it appears in _Silence_? The
> blurb given above the text in _Silence_ leaves some ambiguity about this.
> I'm working right now on music and Abstract Expressionism, and this
factoid
> is very important to me.
> Olivia Mattis
> University of Maryland at College Park
I don't know for certain, but I assume so. The papers of the Artist's Club
secretary (whose name escapes me at the moment) are in an archive right
there in DC. I may have the information around somewhere, but in any event
I got it from the footnotes in one of the abstract expressionist studies
floating around out there. I've wanted to check those papers out to get
information about Cage's Indian sand-painting lecture, the exact dates of
the Lectures on Nothing and Something, etc. If you check it out, let me
know!
James Pritchett
jwp@silvertone.princeton.edu
OR
jamesp@pgi.petersons.com
------------------------------
From: David W Patterson <dwp1@columbia.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 9:14:06 EST
Subject: RE: Lecture on Nothing
You might also check with Elizabeth Swaim, Special Collections
Librarian at Olin Library, Wesleyan University, where the "other" Cage
Archive is. I can't recall offhand if they have materials
specifically on the Lecture on Nothing, but that's where a good deal
of Cage's writing-related materials are, including some files marked
"Kostelanetz," which I assume means he used those files in assembling
his anthologies. (Perhaps there are Ur-sources there?)
David Patterson
Columbia University
dwp1@columbia.edu
------------------------------
From: pnr@po.CWRU.Edu (Peter N. Risser)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 19:31:25 -0500
Subject: off the subject
I know this is sort of off the subject, so please Email your responses as
oppsoed to posting them, but does anyone out there know anything about
Digital Editing studios? Specifically, good software/hardware that can be
run on a simple IBM setup?
I'm very curious.
Thanks.
- --
I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep !
like my grandfather, ! Peter Risser
not screaming in terror ! pnr@po.cwru.edu
like his passengers. !
------------------------------
From: pnr@po.CWRU.Edu (Peter N. Risser)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 19:32:15 -0500
Subject: random program
I have the random program for command line DOS. If you want me to mail you
a copy, drop me a line. (EMail, please)
- --
I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep !
like my grandfather, ! Peter Risser
not screaming in terror ! pnr@po.cwru.edu
like his passengers. !
------------------------------
From: "E.R.M. (Editions de la Rue Margot)" <numusic@interaccess.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:41:58 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: random program
On Wed, 11 Jan 1995, Peter N. Risser wrote:
>
> I have the random program for command line DOS. If you want me to mail you
> a copy, drop me a line. (EMail, please)
Please Peter, I would like a copy of the random program...
Paul Harvey
numusic@interaccess.com
Thanks...
>
>
> --
> I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep !
> like my grandfather, ! Peter Risse
r
> not screaming in terror ! pnr@po.cwru.ed
u
> like his passengers. !
>
------------------------------
End of silence-digest V1 #4
***************************
Date sent: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 06:08:57 -0600
From: owner-silence-digest@bga.com
To: silence-digest@bga.com
Subject: silence-digest V1 #5
Send reply to: silence@bga.com
silence-digest Monday, 16 January 1995 Volume 01 : Number 005
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bob Kosovsky <kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 15:51:31 EST
Subject: Cage mss. at NYPL
I'm happy to post this item.
Bob Kosovsky
Student, PhD Program in Music
Librarian
Graduate Center
Music Division
City University of New York
The New York Public Library
kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
kosovsky@nyplgate.nypl.org
- -------My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions----
---
======================================================================
News Release:
THE MUSIC MANUSCRIPTS OF JOHN CAGE, A MAJOR LEGACY OF 20TH-
CENTURY CULTURE, GO TO THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY FOR THE
PERFORMING ARTS.
New York, New York -- January 13, 1995 -- New York Public
Library President Paul LeClerc announced today the acquisition
of the John Cage Music Manuscript Collection, which will be
housed permanently in the Music Division of the New York Public
Library for the Performing Arts at Lincoln Center. "Cage was
one of the premiere American artists of this century, and his
26,000 pages of manuscripts will reside alongside the works of
many other influential contemporary composers, including
William Schuman, Otto Luening, Vincent Perischetti, and Carlos
Chavez, all of whose manuscripts are important components of
the Library's collections," said Dr. LeClerc.
At today's press conference, Dr. LeClerc was joined by Merce
Cunningham, the Artistic Director of the Merce Cunningham Dance
Foundation and the most important associate of the late John
Cage, and Robert Marx, Executive Director of The New York
Public Library for the Performing Arts. Present were many
associates of John Cage, including Laura Kuhn, Executive
Director of the John Cage Trust; Don Gillespie, Vice President
of C. F. Peters Corporation, the longtime publishers of Cage's
music; and David Vaughan, the Cunningham Dance Foundation
archivist.
Speaking of the importance of the acquisition by The New York
Public Library for the Performing Arts, Mr. Cunningham said,
"The several times John Cage spoke of his desire concerning his
music manuscripts, it was always that they be kept together and
made accessible to whoever might be interested; that they be
left open, as he was, to people having the opportunity to see
and experience them. They show his spirit, the continuous
adventure of his life."
John Cage was born in Los Angeles in 1912, and his interest in
music was apparent an early age. After college and travels in
Europe, where he augmented his studies in music with
architecture and modern painting, Cage returned to Los Angeles
to make his life as a composer. His earliest compositions date
from the early 1930s when he was studying with Henry Cowell and
Arnold Schoenberg. In 1938 Cage met Merce Cunnningham at the
Cornish School near Seattle where he had been accompanying
dance classes. In 1943, at the age of 31, he moved to New York
where he worked and lived for nearly five decades, until his
death in 1992.
Long after teaching Cage, Schoenberg confided to a friend that
his former student was "an inventor of genius." Through his
inventiveness Cage sought to expand existing modes of musical
expression. One of his most well-known inventions is the
prepared piano, in which various materials are carefully
positioned between the strings of a piano. When played, the
sound of a prepared piano can offer striking effects of tone
and timbre not available on an ordinary piano. The first
composition in which Cage used a prepared piano was his
Bacchanale (1940), for which he desired an extra sound
dimension without using percussion. Many of the manuscripts in
the acquisition illustrate Cage's diligence in carefully
determining the placement of particular objects inside a piano.
Cage experimented with electronic sounds long before the advent
of magnetic tape. Imaginary Landscape, no. 1 (1939) used two
variable-speed turntables along with a piano and cymbal. With
the general availability of tape recording in the 1950s Cage
continued to explore new possibilities of sound. His Williams
Mix (1952) contains precise and detailed graphic instructions
for splicing together over 600 different sounds in order to
create a recording of slightly over four minutes. Cage once
wrote "My favorite music is the music I haven't yet heard. I
don't hear the music I write. I write, in order to hear the
music I havent yet heard. That's my tendency -- to be
interested most in what I haven't yet done."
In the 1940s, Cage became interested in Zen Buddhism. One idea
that was a continual source of inspiration to him was the
notion of the composer withholding his personal choices in the
realization of a musical composition. In this way the
circumstances and environment of a particular performance would
create the resulting work. Cage's 4'33" (1952) represents a
synthesis and culmination of these ideas. Undoubtedly his most
famous work, 4'33" consists of instructions for a performer to
sit quietly for four minutes and thirty-three seconds. The
silence forces performer and audience to become aware of
ambient sound. "I have felt and hoped to have led other people
to feel that the sounds of their environment constitute a music
which is more interesting than the music which they would hear
if they went into a concert hall."
Many of the manuscripts for individual works are accompanied by
earlier drafts, sketches, and preliminary compositional notes.
Several works remain unpublished, and other works are
incomplete and unfinished. Musicologists study and value this
kind of archival material for the assistance it offers in
gaining a thorough understanding of a composer's unique
compositional procedures and individual style. At the
Performing Arts Library the John Cage Music Manuscripts will be
housed in the Music Division, under the supervision of its
chief, Jean Bowen.
Numerous compositions by Cage reveal his fascination with using
music in a theatrical context. As early as 1939 he wrote
incidental music to a production of Cocteau's The Wedding on
the Eiffel Tower. The collection includes this work which has
never been published. His famed partnership with Merce
Cunningham created a legacy of musical compositions for the
dance. Cage also composed for other dancers and choreographers
such as Valerie Bettis, Bonnie Bird, Jean Erdman, Syvilla Fort,
Hanya Holm, Louise Lippold, Merle Marsicano, Pearl Primus, and
Wilson Williams. Cage wrote two film scores, both of which
concern visual artists. Music for Marcel Duchamp was composed
for the sequence designed by Duchamp that formed a part of
Dreams That Money Can Buy (1947), and Works of Calder (1950)
was written for the documentary film of the same name
concerning sculptor Alexander Calder.
Cage was at the forefront of what came to be called performance
art with his Black Mountain Piece (1952), which uses music,
theatre, dance, and multimedia. Water Walk (1959) uses a
mechanical fish, a duck call, a bathtub, a soda siphon, and ice
cubes crushed in a blender among other material, and was first
performed on an Italian television quiz show. A 1966
performance in Greenwich Village of his Theater Piece (1960)
was interrupted by the police when the audience was sent out of
the theater to scavenge for streetside garbage to be used in
the work's realization.
Robert Marx said, "Cage was one of the original creative forces
in American music of this century. The archive includes most
of John Cage's musical compositions, as well as his own
detailed notes on how these works should be performed.
Researches will find this collection to be a prime source for
the ways in which experimental performances have been realized
in our own country and abroad. We're excited that soon the
catalog of the collection will be available on-line, and that
eventually the manuscripts themselves will be digitized and
electronically accessible to the world.
[end]
------------------------------
From: "FURR" <E4152019@apollo.montclair.edu>
Date: 14 Jan 95 01:50:00 EST
Subject: Tribute to John Cage (a poem)
Time
Random
musIc
numBers
soUnd
quesTions
Experience
noThing
cOmposes
Journey
thrOugh
pHilosophy
chaNce
Change
imAgination
nonGuidance
silencE
A Poem by Craig Cosentino
------------------------------
From: christopher l shultis <cshultis@unm.edu>
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 00:39:18 -0700 (MST)
Subject: David Revill's Cage bio
Let's not be so hard on David Revill! I can understand Mr. Pritchett's
dismay over the lack of citations (particularly in regards his own
excellent research); on the other hand, I find it a useful biography for
the layperson. While I doubt that scholars will find it useful, it does
give a general overview of Cage's life unavailable in any other single
source. Besides it (the book) clearly had no intention of being scholarly
to begin with. It is also certainly preferable to the kind of
journalistic biographies Joan Peyser writes (although I think it somewhat
fits within a similar category). Finally, Revill's attention to Norman O.
Brown is especially notable since I consider Brown to be Cage's most
perceptive critic. His (Brown's) lecture "John Cage", published in the
collection "John Cage at 75" (Bucknell) heavily influences Revill's work.
And the important distinction made there (re: Nietzsche's
Apollonian-Dionysian
aesthetic axis) has been all but ignored by the so-called Cage scholarly
community (my 1993 dissertation "Silencing the Sounded Self: John Cage
and the Experimental Tradition in Twentieth-Century Poetry and Music"
focuses contextually on such issues). Reading Brown's "Love's Body" in
parallel with the oft-cited (by Cage) "Neti-Neti" by L.C. Beckett is
very, very revealing, I think. In fact, can anyone out there help me find
an original copy of the latter to replace my extremely worn-out photocopy
of this long out of print text?
Chris Shultis
cshultis@unm.edu
------------------------------
From: "Joseph Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 03:58:41 600
Subject: Re: David Revill's Cage bio
christopher l shultis <cshultis@unm.edu> writes:
> And the important distinction made there (re: Nietzsche's
> Apollonian-Dionysian aesthetic axis) has been all but ignored
> by the so-called Cage scholarly
> community (my 1993 dissertation "Silencing the Sounded Self: John Cage
> and the Experimental Tradition in Twentieth-Century Poetry and Music"
> focuses contextually on such issues).
Is the text of your dissertation available?
> Reading Brown's "Love's Body" in
> parallel with the oft-cited (by Cage) "Neti-Neti" by L.C. Beckett is
> very, very revealing, I think. In fact, can anyone out there help me find
> an original copy of the latter to replace my extremely worn-out photocopy
> of this long out of print text?
Try a university library (though I would guess you already have). The
University of Texas online directory lists it as:
Neti, neti (not this, not that). / Beckett, Lucile C / Marazion, Corn#
1959
B 828 B421 Humanities Research Center USE IN LIBRARY ONLY
AUTHOR: Beckett, Lucile C
TITLE: Neti, neti (not this, not that).
PUBLISHED: (Marazion, Cornwall) Ark Press; London, (distributed by J.M.
Watkins, 1955)
DESCRIPTION: 112 p. 20 cm.
NOTES: Includes bibliographies. Bibliographical footnotes.
SUBJECTS: Mysticism
OCLC NUMBER: 3041047
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ==== Austin, Texas! \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/Online Liaison, Third Annual Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
------------------------------
From: Robert Haskins <rh@lulu.esm.rochester.edu>
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 95 08:50:59 -0800
Subject: Revill's book (was: David Revill's Cage Bio)
Chris Schultis writes:
> Let's not be so hard on David Revill! I can understand Mr. Pritchett's
> dismay over the lack of citations (particularly in regards his own
> excellent research); on the other hand, I find it a useful biography for
> the layperson. While I doubt that scholars will find it useful, it does
> give a general overview of Cage's life unavailable in any other single
> source.
There are more lapses that the lack of citations of scholars; there are
also inaccuracies of factual data (rectified by Richard Kostalanetz in
his review for _Notes_) and -- most egregious, to my mind -- wholesale
quotations from Cage's own writings with no citations. So yes, it
is easy to be hard on Revill -- it would not have taken him much longer
to fix these problems.
> Besides it (the book) clearly had no intention of being scholarly
> to begin with.
Depends on how you define "scholarly." It has a bibliography and (some)
notes, which is more than many a popular biography has.
> Finally, Revill's attention to Norman O.
> Brown is especially notable since I consider Brown to be Cage's most
> perceptive critic. His (Brown's) lecture "John Cage", published in the
> collection "John Cage at 75" (Bucknell) heavily influences Revill's work.
Eastman doesn't have that collection (which I had looked at when I was
studying at Peabody) but I am in the process of getting it from Univ. Roch.
I wanted to look at a Pritchett article there but will have to read the Brown
as well.
> And the important distinction made there (re: Nietzsche's
> Apollonian-Dionysian
> aesthetic axis) has been all but ignored by the so-called Cage scholarly
> community ...
Why "so-called"? I am dismayed that so much attention has been
lavished on Cage's ideas often to the exclusion of his music, writing, and
art -- and continues to be -- but I rarely think the scholarship itself is
specious. Please elaborate.
> (my 1993 dissertation "Silencing the Sounded Self: John Cage
> and the Experimental Tradition in Twentieth-Century Poetry and Music"
> focuses contextually on such issues).
Have any parts of your dissertation been published in journals? Or read
at a conference? If the former, I would love to know the journals so I
could read some of your work. If the latter, would you be willing to
share copies with me?
Rob Haskins
Eastman School of Music
------------------------------
From: christopher l shultis <cshultis@unm.edu>
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 23:08:54 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: my remark about the "so-called Cage scholarly community"
On Sat, 14 Jan 1995, Robert Haskins wrote:
> Why "so-called"? I am dismayed that so much attention has been
> lavished on Cage's ideas often to the exclusion of his music, writing, and
> art -- and continues to be -- but I rarely think the scholarship itself is
> specious. Please elaborate.
> I like the scholarship too for the most part. My emphasis should have more
clearly addressed "community". When I submitted my dissertation proposal
there were only three Ph.D dissertations on Cage recorded (Pritchett, Snyder
and Campana). I would expect a community to have more members than that!
I am fully aware that there are many others out there working on
Cage projects but there is very little published evidence of a
community if that clarifies my meaning. Furthermore there is really little
published scholarly analysis of Cage's ideas either if you think about it.
Most of what has passed for that kind of analysis is journalistic and, as such
,
not very substantive. In other words, there's alot of work to do in all
areas including Cage's ideas.
I also think that separating Cage's work into the various categories you
suggest above is somewhat problematic even though Cage himself indicated
that such separations were very real. For example, I find that literary
analysis is often a far more effective way of approaching many of Cage's
musical compositions and vice versa. Since Cage often worked in both
mediums, how does the scholar approach Cage without expertise in both
musical and literary analytical methods? And what about the visual art
that occupied so much of Cage's time toward the end of his life? It seems
to me that Cage's work requires an interdisciplinary methodology that is
discouraged all too often by specialized disciplines. Anyone as
interested in the ideas of Fuller as Cage was would certainly be apt to
prefer a synergetic (the sum is greater than the total of its parts)
approach. I find it very, very difficult consequently to separate Cage's
music from the ideas that underlie it. But then again, if there really is
a Cage scholarly community out there, let's hear how some of you are
approaching such issues.
> > (my 1993 dissertation "Silencing the Sounded Self: John
Cage
> > and the Experimental Tradition in Twentieth-Century Poetry and Music"
> > focuses contextually on such issues).
>
> Have any parts of your dissertation been published in journals? Or read
> at a conference? If the former, I would love to know the journals so I
> could read some of your work. If the latter, would you be willing to
> share copies with me?
>
I just missed the AMS deadline so I guess I won't be submitting anything
for the New York conference. I submitted an article to the Musical
Quarterly well over a year ago; it continues to languish there and if I
don't hear soon I may pull it and submit the thing elsewhere. I did read a
paper at the Rocky Mountain American Studies Conference on Cage and Thoreau
a few years back. I'm also sending my revised dissertation to various
publishers. I read a few papers during my Fulbright last year and am giving
a formal lecture on Cage as part of a lecture series at the University of
Maryland at College Park this coming April. So as you can see, I've
not published anything either--but I'm trying! Give me your Eastman address
and I'll send a few things off to you.
Chris Shultis
University of New Mexico
>
>
------------------------------
From: Robert Haskins <rh@lulu.esm.rochester.edu>
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 95 07:29:45 -0800
Subject: RE: My remark about the "so-called Cage scholarly community"
Chris Shultis wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jan 1995, Robert Haskins wrote:
>
> > Why "so-called"? I am dismayed that so much attention has been
> > lavished on Cage's ideas often to the exclusion of his music, writing, and
> > art -- and continues to be -- but I rarely think the scholarship itself is
> > specious. Please elaborate.
>
> I like the scholarship too for the most part. My emphasis should have more
> clearly addressed "community". When I submitted my dissertation proposal
> there were only three Ph.D dissertations on Cage recorded (Pritchett, Snyder
> and Campana). I would expect a community to have more members than that!
> I am fully aware that there are many others out there working on
> Cage projects but there is very little published evidence of a
> community if that clarifies my meaning. Furthermore there is really little
> published scholarly analysis of Cage's ideas either if you think about it.
> Most of what has passed for that kind of analysis is journalistic and, as su
ch,
> not very substantive. In other words, there's a lot of work to do in all
> areas including Cage's ideas.
The lack of publication doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of interest but a
rather a continuing "uneasiness" about Cage among the elder statespeople
in the musicological community. Lately, _Perspectives of New Music_
has been publishing quite a bit, and there's been some stuff in _Musical
Quarterly_ , so I would LIKE to think the tide is changing. In English,
the 70th and 75th birthday collections, the Kostalanetz-edited _Writings
about Cage,_ and the Perloff/Junkerman-edited _John Cage: Composed
in America_ all seem to contain thoughtful (i.e., not journalistic) articles.
And certainly, among the hundreds (thousands?) of interviews, there are
some that I think are really more than journalistic. (Off the top of my
head, the Stuart Saunders Smith in _Percussive Notes,_ which was reprinted
in _Writings about Cage_ -- okay, okay, so I transcribed it, but that doesn't
bias me! :-) )I don't know the European situation as well but I would
imagine there's a lot in German. So there are things beginning to appear
and I think this will continue.
> I also think that separating Cage's work into the various categories you
> suggest above is somewhat problematic even though Cage himself indicated
> that such separations were very real. For example, I find that literary
> analysis is often a far more effective way of approaching many of Cage's
> musical compositions and vice versa. Since Cage often worked in both
> mediums, how does the scholar approach Cage without expertise in both
> musical and literary analytical methods? And what about the visual art
> that occupied so much of Cage's time toward the end of his life? It seems
> to me that Cage's work requires an interdisciplinary methodology that is
> discouraged all too often by specialized disciplines.
I have no doubt that an interdisciplinary approach would suit Cage
admirably (why not include, for example, dance history in that
mixture?) But as soon as we imagine we know exactly _how_ Cage
scholarship should best be done, we silence voices in the dialogue, and
I find that silencing more problematic than any ad-hoc division of
categories I suggested above. Nevertheless, the so-called New Musicology
of Lawrence Kramer and Carolyn Abbate favor strongly interdisciplinary
approaches in their work, but neither has dealt with any music past Richard
Strauss's _Elektra._ Nevertheless, their work has made the climate more
favorable for interdiscplinary work on Cage.
> But then again, if there really is
> a Cage scholarly community out there, let's hear how some of you are
> approaching such issues.
My general feeling (and I don't strictly count myself in the "Cage scholarly
community" since my mastery of the literature isn't where it should be) is
that we need to gain a stronger understanding of Cage's compositional
methods (the beginnings of which can be found in Pritchett, especially);
we need literary analysis of Cage's poetry; we need interdiscplinary
studies dealing with Cage and dance; and we need to be more willing to
discuss pitch in Cage's music. And that, to me, is the tip of the iceberg.
> I just missed the AMS deadline so I guess I won't be submitting anything
> for the New York conference. I submitted an article to the Musical
> Quarterly well over a year ago; it continues to languish there and if I
> don't hear soon I may pull it and submit the thing elsewhere.
I bet either _Perspectives_ or _repercussions_ would publish it in a flash.
Rob Haskins
Eastman School of Music
------------------------------
From: Robert Haskins <rh@lulu.esm.rochester.edu>
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 95 07:37:15 -0800
Subject: The rest of my posting
For reasons that don't make any sense to me, some of my posting
seems to have been missing from its appearance on Silence.
Here it is again (and if the rest of you got it, my apologies
for cluttering your mailbox):
> But then again, if there really is
> a Cage scholarly community out there, let's hear how some of you are
> approaching such issues.
My general feeling (and I don't strictly count myself in the "Cage scholarly
community" since my mastery of the literature isn't where it should be) is
that we need to gain a stronger understanding of Cage's compositional
methods (the beginnings of which can be found in Pritchett, especially);
we need literary analysis of Cage's poetry; we need interdiscplinary
studies dealing with Cage and dance; and we need to be more willing to
discuss pitch in Cage's music. And that, to me, is the tip of the iceberg.
> I just missed the AMS deadline so I guess I won't be submitting anything
> for the New York conference. I submitted an article to the Musical
> Quarterly well over a year ago; it continues to languish there and if I
> don't hear soon I may pull it and submit the thing elsewhere.
I bet either _Perspectives_ or _repercussions_ would publish it in a flash.
Rob Haskins
Eastman School of Music
------------------------------
From: christopher l shultis <cshultis@unm.edu>
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 22:01:05 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [none]
lists
------------------------------
From: "Joseph Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 23:27:23 600
Subject: New Cage Recordings: Real and Advertised
I'm listening with pleasure now to "In a Landscape", Stephen Drury's
new recording of John Cage's work for various keyboards. At first
listen, I like it a lot -- it seems somehow warmer than other
recordings I'd heard of the same pieces elsewhere.
The one piece that's completely new to me in "Souvenir", a piece for
organ in 1983. Somehow it feels to me like it was composed much
earlier -- perhaps it's what sounds like modular repetitions. I don't
know much about this work (Pritchett doesn't mention it in his
1969-1992 section, nor do the other references I have at hand). Does
anyone know more about this?
Drury's liner notes, BTW, also reference Pritchett in referring to
the problems with the "Bacchanale" chronology.
I also got a grin out of the "Suite for Toy Piano". If memory serves,
my first big dose of Cage came when I was working at the Rutgers
University Kilmer Library AV desk and stumbled across this piece on
the old CBS recording (Joshua Pierce?). I decided that that was a
very cool thing to have composed and proceded to work my way throught
the rest of his recordings that the rather well stocked library had.
The latest issue of Option has droolworthy ads for new Mode
recordings of the Europeras 3 & 4 and his music for orchestra. Does
anyone know when they will be in the stores?
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ==== Austin, Texas! \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/Online Liaison, Third Annual Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
------------------------------
From: "Joseph Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 23:16:38 600
Subject: Re: Cage mss. at NYPL
Bob Kosovsky <kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu> posts:
> News Release:
>
> THE MUSIC MANUSCRIPTS OF JOHN CAGE, A MAJOR LEGACY OF 20TH-
> CENTURY CULTURE, GO TO THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY FOR THE
> PERFORMING ARTS.
Thank you for posting this! After reading it, I'm chomping to take a
look at the collection.
Do you know what will be available online, and wheen, and in what
form? (I had a dream a few nights ago about a Rolywholyover Web Page
- -- maybe it's not so far from reality.)
Maybe I should take my next vacation holed up in the NYPL...
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ==== Austin, Texas! \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/Online Liaison, Third Annual Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
------------------------------
From: "Joseph Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 23:28:54 600
Subject: Sonatas and Interludes Recordings
I don't currently have a CD of the Sonatas and Interludes and would
like to get one, but there seem to be several out there. Any opinions
as to their relative quality?
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ==== Austin, Texas! \|||
||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \||
|/Online Liaison, Third Annual Austin International Poetry Festival \|
/ <A HREF="http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt/"> Joe Zitt's Home Page</A>\
------------------------------
From: kparks@its.brooklyn.cuny.edu (Kevin Parks --staff music)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 04:11:24 EST
Subject: Re: New Cage Recordings: Real and Advertised
The new mode thingy with 101 & co. will be in Tower after the 17th.
At least that's what the boobs at tower told me when i stopped into
the one one west 4th after work the other day. I can't wait. If 101
is anything like 103, we're in for a real treat.
Here, i can kill two birds with one stone:
on the Sonatas and interludes - i have the yuji takahashi recording on
Denon. I like it quite a lot. rhythmically sharp and the preparations
are carefully done. Of the ones that i have heard it is best. I have also
heard the joshua pierce and i don't like it much.
Cheers,
kevin parks
------------------------------
From: Ldaedalus@aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 06:50:34 -0500
Subject: Pritchett
Please forgive what must seem a very silly question: What is the Pritchett
book to which I often see references in this list?
Thanks,
Leo Daedalus
Ldaedalus@aol.com
------------------------------
From: Bob Kosovsky <kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 07:07:46 EST
Subject: The Pritchett book
Some info on the Pritchett book, courtesy of CATNYPL (NYPL's online catalog)
AUTHOR Pritchett, James.
TITLE The music of John Cage / James Pritchett.
IMPRINT Cambridge [England] ; New York : Cambridge University Press,
1993.
DESCRIPT xiii, 223 p. : ill. ; 26 cm.
SERIES Music in the twentieth century.
NOTE Includes bibliographical references and index.
SUBJECT Cage, John --Criticism and interpretation.
If you haven't yet noticed, the author is subscribed to this list.
Bob Kosovsky
Student, PhD Program in Music
Librarian
Graduate Center
Music Division
City University of New York
The New York Public Library
kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
kosovsky@nyplgate.nypl.org
- -------My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions----
---
------------------------------
End of silence-digest V1 #5
***************************
Date sent: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 11:25:29 -0600
From: owner-silence-digest@bga.com
To: silence-digest@bga.com
Subject: silence-digest V1 #6
Send reply to: silence@bga.com
silence-digest Tuesday, 24 January 1995 Volume 01 : Number 006
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From: Bob Kosovsky <kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 07:16:52 EST
Subject: Re: Cage mss. at NYPL
Listowner Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> asks:
>Thank you for posting this! After reading it, I'm chomping to take a
>look at the collection.
>
>Do you know what will be available online, and wheen, and in what
>form? (I had a dream a few nights ago about a Rolywholyover Web Page
>-- maybe it's not so far from reality.)
>
>Maybe I should take my next vacation holed up in the NYPL...
Well, as it turns out, I'm the single person who's doing the cataloging,
though my work is checked by at least 2 additional catalogers. It'll still
be a while before the entire thing is completed (I'm going chronologically
and I'm only up to 1953 - having worked on it for little more than a month).
With certain exceptions, I believe the library is not keen on people using
the collection until all the processing is finish