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Mon, 17 May 1999 18:29:09 -0400
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 18:29:09 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
To: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>
Cc: silence@lists.realtime.net
Subject: Re: Cage, Fluxus & avant-garde
Message-ID: <19990517182909.C14904@metatronpress.com>
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On Mon, May 17, 1999 at 11:10:28AM -0700, Eric S. Theise wrote:
> The story was told at the Here Comes Everybody conference that John was
> very moved by the phenomena of babies being born addicted to crack as
> it began to receive coverage in the mainstream media. At that time,
> he was surprised to learn that Jesse Jackson was black.
Which reminds me: have proceedings or any other output from that conference
ever been published?
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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:50:22 -0700
From: Larry Solomon <solo@azstarnet.com>
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Organization: Pima College
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To: daniela cascella <d.cascella@flashnet.it>
CC: silence@lists.realtime.net
Subject: Re: etudes australes
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Etudes Australes is available on CDs, recorded by both Grete Sultan and
Steven Drury (Steve is on the Silence list -- his CD contains only the
first book, I think). The work was dedicated to Grete Sultan.
Information on the composition is in Jamey Pritchett's book.
Unfortunately, he's no longer on the Silence list.
daniela cascella wrote:
>
> Hello, I've just joined the list. I am an Italian curator of
> contemporary art and I am currently writing a long article for a new
> monographic art magazine published in Rome. This issue's theme is
> "Night" and I would like to say something about the way John Cage used
> star maps in "Etudes Australes" - the problem is, I don't know much
> about them, so I was wondering if anyone could suggest me, first of
> all, a good cd publication of the work and also could explain the
> method used by Cage ( I only know he used star maps, but I don't know
> HOW!?)
> Thanks a lot for your help!
> Best wishes,
> Daniela Cascella
> d.cascella@flashnet.it
--
Best Wishes,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Larry J Solomon
The Center for the Arts, Pima College, Tucson, AZ 85709-0295
solo@azstarnet.com
Solomon's Music Theory & Composition Resources:
http://www.AzStarNet.com/~solo
Introduction to Music Theory Webcourse:
http://community.cc.pima.edu/classes/mus102/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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From owner-silence@lists.realtime.net Thu Aug 19 14:19:26 1999
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Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:08:31 -0400
To: editor@ubu.com
From: Kenneth Goldsmith <kennyg@bway.net>
Subject: Whitney Details
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Many have asked for more details about the Whitney American Century 2 Sound
Works. This is from Stephen Vitiello:
From: stephen vitiello <svitiello@eai.org>
Subject: Re: Whitney Details
Thanks for the note and all enthusiasm.
There are two things happening. Yoko Ono's and Terry Fox's works will be on
stairway landings. Michel Auder, Art by Telephone and Adrian Piper will be
heard in or around one of the phone booths on the second floor. Julia Scher
will be in the 2nd floor bathrooms.
The rest will be played one or two times in the Film and Video Gallery
during the week of January 11. The speakers will be re-set to ear level
rather than overhead film scale. Lights will be dimmed and seats will be
set-up to make it as conducive to listening as possible. There will not be
any live performances that I know of. I proposed several but there was no
money available. Annea Lockwood's piece will be a mini installation -- with
recordings of the river heard on the main sound system and a second CD
player with headphones, will play oral histories. A clock and map will be
mounted on the wall which are specific to the work. Thursday evening with
works by Kaprow and Amacher will be a multi channel presentation. We will
set up multiple speakers and CD players. Bill Fontana's documentations
will be accompanied by printed descriptions and histories. I will try to
make printed material available as often as possible.
Some of the works, such as the Cage piece and tapes from Charlotte Moorman
have never been released. Acconci's Running Tape and Nauman's Record are
more known of than heard. Nic Collins is making a new document of a classic
work. Bob Bielecki is known for his assisting everybody (La Monte Young,
P.Glass, L. Anderson., B.Viola) for the last 30 years but his incredibly
beautiful recordings have almost never been spotlighted as "works."
Thanks for the note on Melodie's name!
Also, here is a list of the the pieces that I selected for the Whitney
that will go up in September-January:
Cough Piece by Yoko Ono, Happy Birthday Mr.
President by Kristin Oppenheim, Voyage to the Center of the Phone Lines,
part 2 by Michel Auder, The Labyrinth Scored for the Purrs of 11 Cats by
Terry Fox, Seriation # 1 by Adrian Piper, Washroom Male, Washroom Female
by Julia Sher, Art by Telephone from MCA Chicago, 1969 and featuring
Artists: Siah Armajani, Arman, Richard Artschwager, John Baldessari, Iain
Baxter, Mel Bochner, George Brecht, Jack Burnham, James Lee Byars, Robert
H. Cumming, Francis Dallegret, Jan Dibbets, John Giorno, Robert Grosvenor,
Hans Haacke, Dick Higgins, Davi Det Hompson, Robert Huot, Alain Jacquet, Ed
Kienholz, Joseph Kosuth, Les Levine, Sol LeWitt, Robert Morris, Bruce
Nauman, Claes Oldenburg, Dennis Oppenheim, Richard Serra, Robert Smithson,
Guenther Uecker, Stan Van Der Beek, Bernar Vernet, Frank Lincoln Viner,
Wolf Vostell, William Wegman, William T. Wiley.
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From owner-silence-digest@mail2.realtime.net Sun Jan 9 17:08:55 2000
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From: owner-silence-digest@mail2.realtime.net (silence-digest)
To: silence-digest@lists.realtime.net
Subject: silence-digest V1 #305
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silence-digest Sunday, January 9 2000 Volume 01 : Number 305
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 03:17:54 +1100
From: "Chris Bieg" <CBieg@swin.edu.au>
Subject: [silence] Re: silence-digest V1 #304 (Christopher Bieg is on leave)
Christopher Bieg is currently on leave (somewhere in Eastern Europe) and
cannot accept any tasks / appointments. He will be back in early
February.
If you wish to contact him personally, try christopherbieg@netscape.com
and he might find time to reply.
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:29:25 -0600
From: C J Mitchell <cmitch3@artic.edu>
Subject: [silence] sonic youth etc
With regard to Sonic Youth's new recording "Goodbye 20th Century", I have a
few questions:
1. The John Cage number pieces, Four^6 and Six: can anyone clarify whether
the scores specify instrumentation? - and, if so, have these recordings
deviated from that?
2. Also, the number of players listed on the CD sleeve doesn't always equal
the number in the title of the piece, which I understood indicated the
number of performers. Can anyone clarify this please?
3. With regard to the CD overall, there are a number of pieces by other
composers which I'd like to get more information on - and would have liked
more details on the CD sleeve. Does anyone know if there's anything posted
on the web or elsewhere with more background to the pieces on this release.
I've tried searching for this but with no success.
Lastly, at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago, Spring 2000 semester
includes a 15 week course: "John Cage: Concepts and Ideas", instructor
Peter Gena. Tuesday mornings 9-12.
Many thanks - CJ Mitchell
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:37:28 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] sonic youth etc
On Fri, Dec 17, 1999 at 11:29:25AM -0600, C J Mitchell wrote:
> With regard to Sonic Youth's new recording "Goodbye 20th Century", I have a
> few questions:
>
> 1. The John Cage number pieces, Four^6 and Six: can anyone clarify whether
> the scores specify instrumentation? - and, if so, have these recordings
> deviated from that?
Four^6 is for unspecified instrumentation. Dunno about Six.
> 2. Also, the number of players listed on the CD sleeve doesn't always equal
> the number in the title of the piece, which I understood indicated the
> number of performers. Can anyone clarify this please?
There are errors on the CD sleeve. The recording of Four^6 actually has
two simultaneous performances, incorporating eight players, not the
listed six.
> 3. With regard to the CD overall, there are a number of pieces by other
> composers which I'd like to get more information on - and would have liked
> more details on the CD sleeve. Does anyone know if there's anything posted
> on the web or elsewhere with more background to the pieces on this release.
> I've tried searching for this but with no success.
http://www.smellslikerecords.com/syr/syr4/syr4frameset.html for starters.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:29:08 -0800 (PST)
From: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] sonic youth etc
Joseph Zitt writes:
> On Fri, Dec 17, 1999 at 11:29:25AM -0600, C J Mitchell wrote:
> > With regard to Sonic Youth's new recording "Goodbye 20th Century", I have a
> > few questions:
> >
> > 1. The John Cage number pieces, Four^6 and Six: can anyone clarify whether
> > the scores specify instrumentation? - and, if so, have these recordings
> > deviated from that?
>
> Four^6 is for unspecified instrumentation. Dunno about Six.
Yep, Four6 (1990-1992) is for indeterminate sound sources.
Six (1991) is for 6 Percussionists.
- --Eric
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:52:50 -0600
From: "Ronsen, Josh" <JRonsen@timcmortgage.com>
Subject: [silence] RE: Cage and Zen (revisited)
Andy wrote:
>...But in the end, it causes you to think, and come to quite
>truthfull realizations. This, in my oppinion, is the most important and
>valuable aspect of both Zen and Cage -- the ability to look within the
>subject at hand, and using your own vision on the matter, pull out
>something quite valuable, and quite revealing.
"to think" is not really the right verb to use when discussing Zen, not in
the way one usually means by "thinking about a problem." Zen is beyond
thinking, beyond rational, logical thought, i.e. when presented with a zoan,
the answer is not through puzzle solving or "thinking," but a strange if not
mystical sudden realization -- Enlightenment. If you mean "to think" as
something that goes on in the brain, well...
I did a little research on this a while back, especially pertaining to the
topic of "petty violence" that I claimed was a link between Zen and Dada,
which someone here said it wasn't without giving any genuine rebuttal. D.T.
Suzuki (whose classes Cage attended around 1950) wrote in his book "Zen and
Japanese Culture" that the act of a master slapping his student across the
face was meant to shock the student out of conscious thinking so that he
could be open to Enlightenment. There are many many examples of this. Hence
I stand by my original claim that "petty violence" is important to Zen, or
to at least to a number of Zen masters.
As for Dada: I argue that the riots that accompanied some of the
performances were deliberately provoked, especially the later performances
in Berlin, and certainly I have never read any Dada writings discussing how
they could make their performances riot-free.
There is a very funny story in the Suzuki book that I must share with you:
it is something I would love to hear Cage read. Basically two samuri
warriors are on a small ferry boat going across a lake. One is very boastful
and wants to fight the other one to show how great a fighter he is to all
the boat passengers. The challenged samuri, who does not want to fight and
would be happy just to nap in the corner, coolly says that he is a master in
"fighting without swords." The boastful samuri is enraged by this and
demands a fight right then and there. The "cool" samuri suggests that they
row to a small island in the middle of the lake and fight there, so innocent
people don't get hurt. It is agreed and the ferry goes to such an island.
The boastful samuri quickly jumps out of the boat onto the island, taking
out his sword to attack the other. The "cool" samuri, still in the boat,
takes off his swords and hands them to the boat rower. He then grabs the oar
and quickly pushes the boat away from the island, leaving the boastful
samuri stranded on the island.
That has nothing to do with anything, but I think it is worth sharing.
- -Josh Ronsen
http://www.nd.org/jronsen
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 00:18:25 EST
From: Jabooky@aol.com
Subject: Re: [silence] RE: Cage and Zen (revisited)
that same story was in the Bruce Lee movie, Enter the dragon, just to let you
know
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 07:59:41 +0000
From: John Whiting <john.whiting@which.net>
Subject: Re: [silence] RE: Cage and Zen (revisited)
"Ronsen, Josh" wrote:
> . . . Zen is beyond
> thinking, beyond rational, logical thought, i.e. when presented with a zoan,
> the answer is not through puzzle solving or "thinking," but a strange if not
> mystical sudden realization -- Enlightenment.
Zen was a response to a rigid system of cultural discipline which is, to us
in the West, beyond our imagining. I have always thought that the practice
of Zen within, say, the laid back permissiveness of the California Beat
scene, was rather like playing tennis with no court and no net. (Kenneth
Rexroth agreed.)
John Whiting
Diatribal Press
London
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:16:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Daniel Feinsmith <radical@well.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] RE: Cage and Zen (revisited)
> "Ronsen, Josh" wrote:
>
> > . . . Zen is beyond
> > thinking, beyond rational, logical thought, i.e. when presented with a zoan,
> > the answer is not through puzzle solving or "thinking," but a strange if not
> > mystical sudden realization -- Enlightenment.
>
> Zen was a response to a rigid system of cultural discipline which is, to us
> in the West, beyond our imagining. I have always thought that the practice
> of Zen within, say, the laid back permissiveness of the California Beat
> scene, was rather like playing tennis with no court and no net. (Kenneth
> Rexroth agreed.)
>
> John Whiting
> Diatribal Press
> London
John,
I think that in your response you are mistaking Japan's "stylings"
sorrounding Buddhist meditation for Zen. The word "Zen" came from the
chinese "Ch'an" which came from Indian Dhyana or Jhana of Buddhist and
pre-Buddhist terminology. Zen wasn't a response to anything, no, not
anything at all, that would certainly miss the point. It is timeless and
spaceless "suchness" which is beyond the never-ending eruptions of
culture-bubbles, time and place, et. al.
Zen in California has definitely taken on a tennis with no court and no
net quality tho, great metaphor!
Daniel.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 05:51:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Sergej jegreS <mokmam@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] poem
just came to my mind - don't remember where I saw it
but it went like this:
LITTLE CHINESE GIRL EXPERIENCING NIRVANA FOR THE 1ST
TIME
she goes to the toilet
without any purpose
if piss comes out she piss
if shit comes out she shit
- ---------------------------
anyway I had some zen oriented (as long as oriented is
the "word") impressions when I met these words,
although it is like indian music - notation follows
the performance
- -------
best wishes to all
- -sergey glinkov
mokmam@yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:58:12 EST
From: "Samantha Levin" <binnorie@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] poem
This poem is lovely!!! It is all I need.
Samantha
>From: Sergej jegreS <mokmam@yahoo.com>
>To: silence@lists.realtime.net
>Subject: [silence] poem
>Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 05:51:16 -0800 (PST)
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>
>just came to my mind - don't remember where I saw it
> but it went like this:
>LITTLE CHINESE GIRL EXPERIENCING NIRVANA FOR THE 1ST
>TIME
>she goes to the toilet
>without any purpose
>if piss comes out she piss
>if shit comes out she shit
>---------------------------
>
>anyway I had some zen oriented (as long as oriented is
>the "word") impressions when I met these words,
>although it is like indian music - notation follows
>the performance
>
>-------
>best wishes to all
>-sergey glinkov
>mokmam@yahoo.com
>
>__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 22:36:50 -0500
From: Matt Sekerke <msekerke@bellatlantic.net>
Subject: [silence] Importing Enlightenment
Just a bit of a digression on the topic of Zen vs. logic:
The scientific community is only beginning to realize the unity of
spontaneous/intuitive thought with controlled inquiry. Recently, Stephen Jay
Gould, president-elect of the American Association for the Advancement of Science,
has pointed out a couple of discoveries that Duchamp inadvertently (?) stumbled
upon through his works, most notably the rotoreliefs and LHOOQ. Einstein often
spoke of classical music as inspiration and guidance when on the threshold of
discovery, and many scientists are accomplished musicians and afficionados of
classical music.
So, what I mean to say is: How do we further the unity of spontaneity/non-linear
thought with the processes of logic that we have been slaves to for the last four
hundred years? How do you effectively have an artist think scientifically, and a
scientist think artistically? That is what I believe is most lost upon the
developing music scene. Artists begin to lose their capacity for experiment (in
the laboratorical sense) when insulated from that community. When they try to
synthesize the two, they usually produce some pseudo-scientific atrocity (witness:
Stockhausen's Astral music, etc.) instead of gaining any of the benefits of
"rational thought". Comments?
Matt Sekerke
(Hey, remember me?)
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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 10:12:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] zENlightenment
you may want to try a lighthearted (how else?) look at
zen at http://www.do-not-zzz.com
rod
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 08:15:36 -0600
From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>
Subject: [none]
Hi,
Just a brief note to let all y'all know that this week on Mappings
I've got a show featuring more than an hour of music by
composer/instrument maker/microtonal theorist/curmudgeon Harry
Partch, not entirely unrelated to what we discuss here. You'll hear
The Letter, Ulysses at the Edge, Barstow, Windsong, the Dreamer that
Remains, and more.
the show is available throughout the week at
<http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index.htm>. Note too
that there are now several other shows at Antenna that feature music
you may find relevant: Le Vide, Attacca, Intoxication Hour and more,
all accessible through the link to other shows from the page above.
Bests,
Herb
- --
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:04:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] dance personnel for the Black Mountain Event
Does anyone know who danced at the Black
Mountain Happening in 1952 besides
Merce Cunningham?
Thanks!
Rob
=====
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rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
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accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 23:59:02 +0000
From: John Whiting <john.whiting@which.net>
Subject: Re: [silence] dance personnel for the Black Mountain Event
Rob Haskins wrote:
> Does anyone know who danced at the Black
> Mountain Happening in 1952 besides
> Merce Cunningham?
In residence during the summer of 1952 were Charles Olson, Franz Kline,
John Cage, Merce Cunningham and David Tudor. Also "Milton" Rauschenberg and
his girl friend, Sue Weill.
"During the summer of 1952, he, Cage and Cunningham--with important
assistance from David Tudor--undertook some explorations in form that had a
notable impact subsequently on the art world, and particularly on the
neo-Dada mΘlanges known as the theater of mixed means." Martin Duberman,
_Black Mountain: an Exploration in Community_, London, Wildwood House, 1974
John Whiting
Diatribal Press
London
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Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 10:53:59 -0500
From: Kenneth Goldsmith <kennyg@bway.net>
Subject: [silence] U B U W E B: N E W R E S O U R C E S :: J A N 2 0 0 0
___U B U W E B___V I S U A L , C O N C R E T E + S O U N D___P O E T R Y___=
=20
=20
http://www.ubu.com=20
U B U W E B: N E W R E S O U R C E S :: J A N 2 0 0 0=20
Historical:=20
John Cage, USA Memogram Correspondence
Bern Porter, USA Found Poems
Jacques Villegl=E9, France, Affiches 1960s-1980s
Sound:=20
Antonin Artaud
Pour en finir avec le jugement de dieu (1946)
Gal, Austria
Bestimmung New York (1999)
Luigi Grandi, Italy
Cavalli + Acciaio (1935)
Brion Gysin
Sound Poems and Lectures 1960-1981
Bob Cobbing
Sound Poetry 1964-1995
F'loom
Sound Poetry (1998)
Fluxus Anthology
18 Artist's Soundworks (1962-1989)
Raoul Hausmann, Austria
Sound Poetry (1918 / 1959)
David Moss
My Favorite Things (1991)
Narrative Poetry from
The Black Oral Tradition
1964-1966
Ben Patterson
Early Works, 1960-1995
Antonio Russolo, Italy
Chorale (1921)
Luigi Russolo, Italy
Risveglio di una Citta (1920s)
Pierre Schaeffer
Solfege de l'objet Sonore, 1966 (Complete)
Poesia Sonora
Do fonetismo =E0s po=E9ticas=20
contempor=E2neas de voz, Brazil (1996)=20
Sound Poetry Today
An International Compilation (1998)
Demetrio Stratos
Cantare La Voce, 1978
Contemporary:=20
David Daniels The Gates of Paradise=20
Papers:=20
S=E9rgio Bessa, NYC, NY, USA
Architecture Versus Sound in Concrete Poetry
Abraham Lincoln Gillespie, USA
Eugen Gomringer, Switzerland
1. From Line To Constellation
2. Concrete Poetry
3. Max Bill and Concrete Poetry
4. The Poem As A Functional Object
Noigandres Group, Brazil
Pilot Plan for Concrete Poetry
Marjorie Perloff, USA
"Concrete Prose": Haroldo de Campos=B9s Gal=E1xias and After
Pierre Schaeffer, France
Treatise on Musical Objects
Mary Ellen Solt, USA
Concrete Poetry: A World View
(Indiana University Press, 1968)=20
___U B U W E B___V I S U A L , C O N C R E T E + S O U N D___P O E T R Y___=
=20
=20
http://www.ubu.com=20
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Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:51:24 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] U B U W E B: N E W R E S O U R C E S :: J A N 2 0 0 0
On Tue, Jan 04, 2000 at 10:53:59AM -0500, Kenneth Goldsmith wrote:
> ___U B U W E B___V I S U A L , C O N C R E T E + S O U N D___P O E T R Y___
>
> http://www.ubu.com
>
>
> U B U W E B: N E W R E S O U R C E S :: J A N 2 0 0 0
Thanks for the update! UBUWEB is one of my favorite spots online. For
those who haven't seen it yet, it's an incredible resource of texts,
recordings, and images, well selected, organized, and designed.
Check it out!
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
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Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:45:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] Robert Ashley interview with Cage?
Friends,
Jill Johnston's review of _Silence_ (reprinted
in Richard Kostelanetz, ed., _John Cage: An
Anthology_) mentions an interview with
the composer Robert Ashley in which he
(Ashley) says,
"It seems to me that your influence on contemporary
music, on 'musicians,' is such that the entire
metaphor of music could change to such an extent
that--time being uppermost as a definition of
music--the ultimate result would be a music that
wouldn't necessarily involve anything but the presence
of people. That is, it seems to me that the most
radical redefinition of music that I could think of
would be one that defines 'music' without reference to
sound."
Any information on the original source?
It doesn't in the bibliographies in Kostelanetz's
anthologies of writings and conversations,
nor did it show up (at least under Ashley's
name) in my own bibliography compiled from
Music Index (paper) and RILM (database).
Please help!
Rob
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 17:08:39 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: [silence] Cage score, sample at Sonic Youth site
The ever-expanding site of Sonic Youth's "Goodbye 20th Century" at
http://www.smellslikerecords.com/syr/index.html now contains a page
from the score of Cage's Four6 and a 3 minute sample of their
performance.
- --
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 07:18:12 -0600
From: tgaud@inc.net (Thomas Gaudynski)
Subject: [silence] Re: Robert Ashley interview with Cage?
Hello Rob,
The comment by Robert Ashley to John Cage is actually in an interview with
Cage conducted by Roger Reynolds that is contained in an Edition Peters
catalog of Cage's work published in 1962.
A footnote says, "Mr. Ashley, a composer living in Ann Arbor, is one of
the organizers of the ONCE activities. He was enjoying the interview (by
Reynolds), which took place in his living room, and asked if he might
comment at this point."
I bought the catalog used sometime in the seventies and so I'm not sure of
its availbaility. Its a fascinating document including descriptions of many
pieces (organized by performance requirements - voice, strings, etc.),
representative pages from scores, a discography, photographs, a forward by
Cage and a vintage advertisement for "Silence" from Wesleyan University
Press.
Hope this helps.
Thomas Gaudynski
Milwaukee
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Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 06:57:57 -0600
From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Robert Ashley interview with Cage?
Hi,
I'm pretty sure there was an interview between Ashley & Cage in the
program for New Music America 1982 (?), the year it was in Chicago,
but this would be far too late for a review of Silence. I'll pull it
out this weekend, if I can find it (my NMA stuff is in one of the
boxes we haven't unpacked yet) & see what's up.
The quote sounds a lot like something out of Roger Reynolds' Mind
Models, which I just returned to the library so I can't check for
sure.
Bests,
Herb
>Friends,
>
>Jill Johnston's review of _Silence_ (reprinted
>in Richard Kostelanetz, ed., _John Cage: An
>Anthology_) mentions an interview with
>the composer Robert Ashley in which he
>(Ashley) says,
>
>"It seems to me that your influence on contemporary
>music, on 'musicians,' is such that the entire
>metaphor of music could change to such an extent
>that--time being uppermost as a definition of
>music--the ultimate result would be a music that
>wouldn't necessarily involve anything but the presence
>of people. That is, it seems to me that the most
>radical redefinition of music that I could think of
>would be one that defines 'music' without reference to
>sound."
>
>Any information on the original source?
>It doesn't in the bibliographies in Kostelanetz's
>anthologies of writings and conversations,
>nor did it show up (at least under Ashley's
>name) in my own bibliography compiled from
>Music Index (paper) and RILM (database).
>
>Please help!
>
>Rob
>
>=====
>Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
>rob_haskins@yahoo.com
>
>"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
> someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
> accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
> -- John Cage
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>http://messenger.yahoo.com
>-
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NEW PHONE: 817 377-2983
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 07:23:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Robert Ashley interview with Cage?
Thanks to Herb and Thomas Gaudynski
<tgaud@inc.net> for their answers to
my Cage/Ashley query. Thomas told me
the remark of Ashley's quoted by
Jill Johnston is actually in an
interview with Roger Reynolds,
published in the Dunn book _John
Cage_ (NY: Peters, 1962). (And
I'd actually remembered later that
evening that that was where I'd
seen it.)
This interview was published previously
(and I don't have the book on hand
to tell me where), and it was also
published in the Schwartz and Childs
anthology _Contemporary Composers
on Contemporary Music_ (recently
republished in an expanded version by
Da Capo press). And it might _also_,
according to Herb, be in _Mind Models._
Fun, fun.
Herb, I'd love to know if you find
an interview with Ashley in _New Music
America_ 1982.
It's nice that some of this material gets
republished, but it can be confusing
as well, as you see. Thanks again for
all your help.
Rob
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:30:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Robert Ashley interview with Cage?
Hi,
Folks: I got into
this thread a little late... The
quote is INDEED from the '62 E.P. list and it
continues after that quote as...
JC: Oh yes, I made some use of that in my silent
piece. [Ed. Note: {a description of the piece
follows}.
RA: It doesn't strike me as being that.
JC: But that involves a number of people being
together, and there are no special sounds.
RA: If our awareness of time increased to such a
degree that it didn't require that we be informed of
time through the medium of sound - if our awareness of
time became enlarged or changed to a really radical
degree - then it's conceivable that we would do away
with sound.
JC: but we can't. You see there are always sounds.
As for the New Music America '82;
It consists of an article written by Ashley called,
"Just One Complaint" and is not an interview - more of
a lengthy statement on John's influence on music,
philosophy, visual arts, and other areas.
Rod
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:17:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Robert Ashley interview with Cage?
- --- Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com> wrote:
> As for the New Music America '82;
>
> It consists of an article written by Ashley called,
> "Just One Complaint" and is not an interview - more
> of
> a lengthy statement on John's influence on music,
> philosophy, visual arts, and other areas.
Ah, in that case I don't need that, because it
was reprinted in _A John Cage Reader_
(which itself was largely a reprint of a special
issue of the _TriQuarterly_ 54).
Rob
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 14:18:18 -0500
From: David Beardsley <xouoxno@virtulink.com>
Subject: [silence] Sundays in the Dream House
MELA presents
Sundays in the Dream House
Two Memorial Concerts
Two of history's most important and yet to be understood composers
Richard Maxfield (1927 - 69)
Live and interactive tape music by America's first
electronic music composer and teacher.
January 23, 2000, 4 pm
*
Terry Jennings (1940 û 81)
Compositions for piano and strings by one of the
founders of minimalist keyboard music
January 30, 2000, 4 pm
Performed by
Charles Curtis
Joseph Kubera
Michael Schumacher
La Monte Young
Admission $18 / 14 MELA members
MELA Foundation
275 Church Street, New York, NY 10013
212-925-8270
More information as it becomes available at
http://lamonteyoung.com
MELA's programs are made possible with public funds
from the New York State Council on the Arts, a State Agency.
- --
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* xouoxno@virtulink.com
*
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 14:38:48 -0600 (CST)
From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Re: [silence] Sundays in the Dream House
On Sun, 9 Jan 2000, David Beardsley wrote:
> Richard Maxfield (1927 - 69)
>
> Live and interactive tape music by America's first
> electronic music composer and teacher.
>
> January 23, 2000, 4 pm
Please explain how, and when, Richard Maxfield became "America's first
electronic electronic music composer and teacher."
LC
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 20:33:49 +0000
From: John Whiting <john.whiting@which.net>
Subject: Re: [silence] Sundays in the Dream House
David Beardsley wrote:
> Richard Maxfield (1927 - 69)
> . . . America's first electronic music composer and teacher.
Interesting and important indeed, but preceded by San Francisco's Henry
Jacobs, who is still alive. Jacobs was working with disks at the same time,
and in much the same way, as Schaeffer and Henri at Paris Radio in the 50s.
John Whiting
Diatribal Press
London
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 13:35:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: Re: [silence] Sundays in the Dream House
--- Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>
> wrote:
> > Please explain how, and when, Richard Maxfield
> > became "America's first
> > electronic electronic music composer and teacher."
> >
> > LC
>
> Yes, I was wondering the same thing (he wasn't even
> the first "electronic electronic music composer")!
>
> Rod
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End of silence-digest V1 #305
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silence-digest Thursday, January 13 2000 Volume 01 : Number 306
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:36:34 +1100
From: "Chris Bieg" <CBieg@swin.edu.au>
Subject: [silence] Re: silence-digest V1 #305 (Christopher Bieg is on leave)
Christopher Bieg is currently on leave (somewhere in Eastern Europe) and
cannot accept any tasks / appointments. He will be back in early
February.
If you wish to contact him personally, try christopherbieg@netscape.com
and he might find time to reply.
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 21:48:34 -0600
From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>
Subject: [silence] Cage in RealAudio
This week's Mappings presents polkas, tangos and arrangements of
Beatles songs by new music composers. I've programmed Cage's "The
Beatles 1962-1970" and "Tango Perpetual" for this show, in addition
there are works by other composers likely to be of interest to
readers of this list.
<http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index.htm>
Hope you like it.
- --
Herb Levy
NEW MAILING ADDRESS: P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147
NEW PHONE: 817 377-2983
same old e-mail: herb@eskimo.com
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 19:57:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] John Cage, Homosexual
This topic came up briefly in June of 1999,
when Philip Brett posted his dictionary
article on Cage for the _Garland Encyclopedia
of Homosexuality_
<http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/text/silence1286.txt>
Having reread Professor Brett's entry I find
it thought-provoking and want to include it
in a doctoral seminar on Cage I'm teaching
this Spring at Eastman. I wonder what
others think about the question of whether Cage's
sexuality has relevance to his art.
Has the Jonathan Katz article cited in
the Brett entry ("John Cage's Queer Silence or How
to Avoid Making Matters Worse." GLQ, forthcoming)
appeared yet? I just found web info
on GLQ but it didn't include an index of
already published stuff, so I'll have to
check the next time I get to the Current
Periodicals Room at the University of Rochester.
Anyway, if/when the Katz article is published,
we could read it and discuss it here; that
might be a good starting point.
That is, assuming the discussion is of
general interest. It might not be. :)
Rob
Rob
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 20:57:28 -0800
From: mark and/or melissa <burzy@drizzle.com>
Subject: [silence] an introduction and sonic youth
- --------------6CD9909D66FA6CABC86243FE
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
hello...first off id like to say that im new to this list...a little
about me...ive been a cage fan since elementary school (thanks mom!) and
my interests in the avant garde etc have grown since...i live and work
in seattle washington...outside of my day job i am a musician/artist who
plays any instrument he can get his hands on (with varying degrees of
success) and a number of things that arent intended as instruments (test
and medical equip. etc) as well as ocassionally build my own
instruments...i also run a small (emphasize small) record label /
recording studio / promotion outfit that releases, records, and hosts
concerts by myself and like minded folk (visit me!
http://members.xoom.com/transients) if you are planning on being in the
area and want to set up a show or recruit a guide contact me...now on to
the news at hand!
someone asked:
>3. With regard to the CD overall, there are a number of pieces by other
>composers which I'd like to get more information on - and would have
liked
>more details on the CD sleeve. Does anyone know if there's anything
posted
>on the web or elsewhere with more background to the pieces on this
release.
>I've tried searching for this but with no success.
well try a few of these...
cornelious cardew (im a big fan) member of seminal improv group AMM and
currently:
- - http://www.composer.co.uk/composers/cardew.html
pauline oliveros queen of minimal accordian (ive not once heard her play
lady of spain)
- - http://www.deeplistening.org/
they are two of my favorites (aside from cage) and i recommend a
couple of magazines as well:
- -halana (too little known) http://www.halana.com/
- -the wire (more common, and frequent)
http://www.dfuse.com/the-wire/homefr.htm
- -musicworks (less common than the wire but more than halana...a little
snooty at times) http://www.musicworks-mag.com/
thanks for listening
- --------------6CD9909D66FA6CABC86243FE
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
hello...first off id like to say that im new to this list...a little about
me...ive been a cage fan since elementary school (thanks mom!) and my interests
in the avant garde etc have grown since...i live and work in seattle washington...outside
of my day job i am a musician/artist who plays any instrument he can get
his hands on (with varying degrees of success) and a number of things that
arent intended as instruments (test and medical equip. etc) as well as
ocassionally build my own instruments...i also run a small (emphasize small)
record label / recording studio / promotion outfit that releases,
records, and hosts concerts by myself and like minded folk (visit me! <A HREF="http://members.xoom.com/transients">http://members.xoom.com/transients</A>)
if you are planning on being in the area and want to set up a show or recruit
a guide contact me...now on to the news at hand!
<p>someone asked:
<br>><i>3. With regard to the CD overall, there are a number of pieces
by other</i>
<br><i>>composers which I'd like to get more information on - and would
have liked</i>
<br><i>>more details on the CD sleeve. Does anyone know if there's anything
posted</i>
<br><i>>on the web or elsewhere with more background to the pieces on this
release.</i>
<br><i>>I've tried searching for this but with no success.</i><i></i>
<p>well try a few of these...
<br>cornelious cardew (im a big fan) member of seminal improv group AMM
and currently:
<br>- <A HREF="http://www.composer.co.uk/composers/cardew.html">http://www.composer.co.uk/composers/cardew.html</A>
<br>pauline oliveros queen of minimal accordian (ive not once heard her
play lady of spain)
<br>- <A HREF="http://www.deeplistening.org/">http://www.deeplistening.org/</A>
<br> they are two of my favorites (aside from cage) and i recommend
a couple of magazines as well:
<br>-halana (too little known) <A HREF="http://www.halana.com/">http://www.halana.com/</A>
<br>-the wire (more common, and frequent) <A HREF="http://www.dfuse.com/the-wire/homefr.htm">http://www.dfuse.com/the-wire/homefr.htm</A>
<br>-musicworks (less common than the wire but more than halana...a little
snooty at times) <A HREF="http://www.musicworks-mag.com/">http://www.musicworks-mag.com/</A>
<p>thanks for listening</html>
- --------------6CD9909D66FA6CABC86243FE--
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:31:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] Cunningham/Black Mountain
A while back Rob Haskins asked about the Black
Mountain event and its dancers - I wanted to spread a
little more light on that:
It seems that "Theatre Piece" was a collaboration by
Cage, Cunningham, Charles Olsen, Rauschenberg, M. C.
Richards, David Tudor and some others in the summer of
'52 (Incidentally, Merce also played the role of Harry
Beaton and choreographed the play "Brigadoon" given in
Burnsville, N.C. that summer.)
As far as actual dances - I'm only aware of "Suite of
Six Short Dances" which was a Merce solo accompanied
by some recorder pieces (spring '52 @ Black Mountain).
In '53 (Aug. 21): The company performed excerpts from
"Symphonie Pour Un Homme Seul" (known as "Collage" at
the Blk. Mtn. perf.) and consisted of:
I: Solo
II: Cunningham, Natanya Neumann, Joan Skinner,
Anneliese Widman, Joanne Finkelor, Jo Anne Melsher,
Marianne Preger, Greta Rosenzweig, Remy Charlip, Ben
Garber, Donald McKayle
III: Solo
There seems to be some instances when they were joined
by Carolyn Brown, Viola Farber, Paul Taylor, Ethel
Brodsky, Anita Dencks, Deborah Moscowitz, and Timothy
La Farge in various configurations, but even David
Vaughan (Cunningham archivist) says that there are
very few instances where no programs appear to exist
and some of the Blk. Mtn. performances are,
unfortunately, those (the others being his
performances with Tanaquil Le Clercq and Betty Nichols
in Paris in 1949.
Hope this is of some help and isn't too late.
Rod
=====
http://rostasi.8m.com
http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html
"I hardly
hear a word he
says. I am too distracted by his Silence."
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 23:15:57 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: [silence] Cage Performs Cage: The Text Pieces I - The Artist Pieces
Amazon lists this as due from Mode on the 25th, including:
1. Series re Morris Graves
Composed by John Cage
with John Cage
2. Art Is Either a Complaint or Do Something Else
Composed by John Cage
with John Cage
3. What You Say
Composed by John Cage
with John Cage
Definitely a must-get... (but I'm suspicious of the $29.67 Amazon is
charging for a single disc. Is this a glitch, or is there something
added on the disc?)
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 06:35:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cunningham/Black Mountain
Hi Rod,
It's never too late to know something I didn't
know before. I'm still interested to know
what dancers joined Merce Cunningham for
the Black Mountain Event--but the story on
everything else that was going on is
fascinating!
Thanks again.
Rob
- --- Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com> wrote:
> A while back Rob Haskins asked about the Black
> Mountain event and its dancers - I wanted to spread
> a
> little more light on that:
>
> It seems that "Theatre Piece" was a collaboration by
> Cage, Cunningham, Charles Olsen, Rauschenberg, M. C.
> Richards, David Tudor and some others in the summer
> of
> '52 (Incidentally, Merce also played the role of
> Harry
> Beaton and choreographed the play "Brigadoon" given
> in
> Burnsville, N.C. that summer.)
>
> As far as actual dances - I'm only aware of "Suite
> of
> Six Short Dances" which was a Merce solo accompanied
> by some recorder pieces (spring '52 @ Black
> Mountain).
>
> In '53 (Aug. 21): The company performed excerpts
> from
> "Symphonie Pour Un Homme Seul" (known as "Collage"
> at
> the Blk. Mtn. perf.) and consisted of:
>
> I: Solo
>
> II: Cunningham, Natanya Neumann, Joan Skinner,
> Anneliese Widman, Joanne Finkelor, Jo Anne Melsher,
> Marianne Preger, Greta Rosenzweig, Remy Charlip, Ben
> Garber, Donald McKayle
>
> III: Solo
>
> There seems to be some instances when they were
> joined
> by Carolyn Brown, Viola Farber, Paul Taylor, Ethel
> Brodsky, Anita Dencks, Deborah Moscowitz, and
> Timothy
> La Farge in various configurations, but even David
> Vaughan (Cunningham archivist) says that there are
> very few instances where no programs appear to exist
> and some of the Blk. Mtn. performances are,
> unfortunately, those (the others being his
> performances with Tanaquil Le Clercq and Betty
> Nichols
> in Paris in 1949.
>
> Hope this is of some help and isn't too late.
>
> Rod
>
>
>
> =====
> http://rostasi.8m.com
>
>
http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html
>
> "I hardly
> hear a word he
> says. I am too distracted by his Silence."
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com
> -
> [Searchable Silence archives:
> http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]
> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc:
> http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]
> [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the
> text "info silence" ]
>
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 07:02:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage Performs Cage: The Text Pieces I - The Artist Pieces
Joseph:
Yes, I noticed it for 24.49 where I usually get my CDs
(I avoid Amazon). Maybe Brian can give us some more
info (poss. CD ROM stuff?)
- --- Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> wrote:
> Amazon lists this as due from Mode on the 25th,
> including:
>
> 1. Series re Morris Graves
> Composed by John Cage
> with John Cage
>
> 2. Art Is Either a Complaint
> or Do Something Else
> Composed by John Cage
> with John Cage
>
> 3. What You Say
> Composed by John Cage
> with John Cage
>
> Definitely a must-get... (but I'm suspicious of the
> $29.67 Amazon is
> charging for a single disc. Is this a glitch, or is
> there something
> added on the disc?)
=====
http://rostasi.8m.com
http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html
Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:06:50 -0500
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>
Subject: Re(2): [silence] Cunningham/Black Mountain
On Wed, Jan 12, 2000, Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:
>It's never too late to know something I didn't
>know before. I'm still interested to know
>what dancers joined Merce Cunningham for
>the Black Mountain Event--but the story on
>everything else that was going on is
>fascinating!
>From what I've known and learned from David Patterson - an expert on the
"Black Mountain years" - there weren't any other dancers other than Merce
for the event, except for maybe the dog that chased him around the space.
And I'm trying to figure out Rod's attribution below...by "Theatre
Piece", you're not talking about the Black Mountain "Happening", correct?
Beacuse "Theatre Piece" is a composition in and of its own, inspired by
the *type* of event that the "Happening" was, which itself was not
composed at all (at least not anywhere near the extent that Theatre Piece is).
>> It seems that "Theatre Piece" was a collaboration by
>> Cage, Cunningham, Charles Olsen, Rauschenberg, M. C.
>> Richards, David Tudor and some others in the summer
>> of '52 (Incidentally, Merce also played the role of
>> Harry Beaton and choreographed the play "Brigadoon" given
>> in Burnsville, N.C. that summer.)
- --
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 07:16:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cunningham/Black Mountain
- --- Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Rod,
>
> It's never too late to know something I didn't
> know before. I'm still interested to know
> what dancers joined Merce Cunningham for
> the Black Mountain Event--but the story on
> everything else that was going on is
> fascinating!
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Rob
Well, like I said...
>"...even David
> > Vaughan (Cunningham archivist) says that there are
> > very few instances where no programs appear to
> exist
> > and some of the Blk. Mtn. performances are,
> > unfortunately, those..."
He (Vaughan) adds:"...and Mr.Cunningham's own
recollections proved to be incomplete...", so maybe we
can hope Merce has started taking Ginkgo :)
Rod
=====
http://rostasi.8m.com
http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html
Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:49:46 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage Performs Cage: The Text Pieces I - The Artist Pieces
Brian Brandt at Mode informs me that it's a 2-CD set of Cage
performing 3 of his text pieces (the first in a series Mode
will do of Cage performing his own works) in a deluxe set with a
slipcase, booklet with liner notes by Richard Kostelanetz, and
the complete texts read by Cage.
It'll be available next week at the Mode site, which now can do
Visa and Mastercard. I'll be ordering directly from them, since it
cuts out the middle-men and gets more of the money back in the
hands of the artists.
I'm eagerly looking forward to this!
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 07:41:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] Cunningham/Black Mountain
> --- Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> wrote:
> >
> > And I'm trying to figure out Rod's attribution
> > below...by "Theatre
> > Piece", you're not talking about the Black
> Mountain
> > "Happening", correct?
> > Beacuse "Theatre Piece" is a composition in and of
> > its own, inspired by
> > the *type* of event that the "Happening" was,
> which
> > itself was not
> > composed at all (at least not anywhere near the
> > extent that Theatre Piece is).
>
> I believe you're right, but I probably should give
> it
> some more research...it's funny, most of the
> annotations that I have on that time seem to gloss
> over '52 very lightly and jumps to B.M. events of
> '53.
> EX:
>
> "Cunningham continued to give yearly concerts of
> solo
> and group works in New York, but without a regular
> company. In the early fifties he was in summer
> residence at Black Mountain College in North
> Carolina.
> There, in 1952, he collaborated with John Cage,
> Robert
> Rauschenberg and others in the presentation of
> Cage's
> "Theatre Piece #1" which might be said to mark the
> beginning of the new theatre movement (happenings,
> mixed media events) of the Fifties and Sixties. In
> the
> same year Cunningham choreographed for the Brandeis
> Featival of Creative Arts, using a company that
> included several of his New York students. These
> accompanied him to Black Mountain in the summer of
> 1953. That August they gave two performances at
> Black
> Mountain of a repertory of dances they had rehearsed
> during the summer and preceding winter. This marked
> the Cunningham Company as a regularly constituted
> performing organization."
>
> I have another book that has much in Spanish that I
> need to spend some time with, so I'll let you know
> if
> I come up with something
>
> Rod
=====
http://rostasi.8m.com
http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html
Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage
__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:49:43 EST
From: KULTBOX@aol.com
Subject: [silence] cage/tudor electronix
Has anyone on the list ever built any of tudors EFX boxes?
Does anyone have any DETAILED information/gear lists
I know some info is on the EMF.ORG web page...but nothing too interesting or
detailed.....
r
www.kultbox.com
**************************
Kurzwelle Landscape (For John Cage)- Kultbox Hyper/media Instillation:
Chicago USA
February 2000.
***********************
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 08:06:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re(4): [silence] Cunningham/Black Mountain
- --- Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> wrote:
> Where is this quote from? The Fetterman?
It's from David Vaughan's "A Biography" written in
"Dance Perspectives".
Rod
=====
http://rostasi.8m.com
http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html
Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:34:30 -0500
From: "\[jk\] ishovi" <moffie@iname.com>
Subject: [silence] introductions
hello everyone!
My name is josef kijewski
I'm a student at Bates College in Lewiston, Maine
and apart from having developed a deep interest in cage within the last year
[although knowing almost nothing to substantiate that interest]
I have enrolled in a class here specifically about him.
I've also [obviously] signed up here
for the purpose of reading what goes on
and also participating as I can.
I don't know the 'climate' of this list
some that i've been on before are extremely warm and interested in newcomers
while others treat their new presence as a sort of violation of their sanctuary
and dislike having to explain things the person 'ought to already know'.
i hope that this list is of the former!
I'm sure you all know there's tons to learn about john cage
and I hope that the people on this list are willing to let me ask questions
which might seem dumb
but indulge me for the sake of my own want to learn.
Thank you all so much - I look forward to the future.
- -josef kijewski
- --------------------------------------------
[nun 1] Sir, it is only a play... with music. Do not distress yourself.
[cosimo] It is only a play... with music? Does God say the same at every
death? It is only a play... with music? When I die, will someone say the
same? He was only a prince. He died. It was only a play... with music.
[Nun 2] (Very quietly) Sir, be grateful for the music. Most of us die in
silence.
[peter greenaway - the baby of macon]
- ------------- http://www.the-loft.demon.co.uk/moffie/ -------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 16:29:49 +0000
From: John Whiting <john.whiting@which.net>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cunningham/Black Mountain
Rod Stasick wrote:
> In '53 (Aug. 21): The company performed excerpts from
> "Symphonie Pour Un Homme Seul" (known as "Collage" at
> the Blk. Mtn. perf.)
This of course would be the musique concrete composition by Pierre
Schaeffer, first performed in concert in Paris in 1950.
John Whiting
Diatribal Press
London
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:25:49 -0700
From: Larry Solomon <solo@azstarnet.com>
Subject: [silence] Barney Childs
I thought that the list would like to know that I received news that
Barney Childs died last night at his home in Redlands, CA. Barney was a
great supporter of new music in America, a prolific composer, musical
explorer, fascinating lecturer and essayist, a great mind, and just a
wonderful person. I will miss him.
- --
Cheers,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Larry J Solomon
The Center for the Arts, Pima College, Tucson, AZ 85709-0015
solo@azstarnet.com
Solomon's Music Theory & Composition Resources:
http://www.AzStarNet.com/~solo
Introduction to Music Theory Webcourse:
http://community.cc.pima.edu/classes/mus102/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:53:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:al [silence] Barney Childs
Thanks Larry for that info - a shame really that he's
gone and wasn't more well known. Rod
=====
http://rostasi.8m.com
http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html
Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:42:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] introductions
Hello Josef,
Since no reply sometimes can seem to be
interpreted as a statement of non-welcome,
and since no one has done so already,
Let me say, Hello! Welcome to the list!
I think we're very much interested in
answering any question, even if it's
been asked before. So ask away.
Maybe you could tell me what department
your Cage class is being taught in
and give us some sense of the reading
list and syllabus.
Rob
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 17:59:11 -0500
From: "\[jk\] ishovi" <moffie@iname.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] introductions
Thank you Rob for your welcome!
>Maybe you could tell me what department
>your Cage class is being taught in
>and give us some sense of the reading
>list and syllabus.
THe course is being taught in the Music Department by a woman who's
specialty is 20th century "experimentalist" composers. The books we have to
buy are just a copy of 'Silence' and a copy of 'THe Roaring Silence' [David
Revill's Cage bio]. However, our library is very Cage-friendly, with an
abundance of videos, manuscripts, and what not - and a large part of our
course will be made up of exploring those resources.
The sylabus itself basically is made up of a student-presentation on a
given subject in relation to him every tuesday and thursday [when the 1.5
hour class takes place], a reading, a listening, and whatever the teacher
would like to add. the student topics [which seem to corrilate with the
readings] are:
overview, biography
cage's early years
expanded sound resources
prepared piano
marcel duchamp, erik satie and antonin artaud
cage and zen buddhism
chance and indeterminacy; graphic notation
abstract expressionism and action painting
black mountain college
cage and technology
bickminster fuller and marshall mccluhan
merce cunningham
cunningham cont.
concept art and fluxus
cage's political views ca. 1970
cage and popular music, jazz, and non-western music
cage and james joyce
[a recital of cage's work]
late works, chamber music and opera
i'm also taking a class on performance art and the avant guard which seems
to contain a fair bit on cage and cunningham, as well as my newfound
interest in robert wilson.
um. and yes. i believe that is it.
forgive the poor punctuation and spelling. i am in a hury and never could
spell well.
- -josef
- --------------------------------------------
[nun 1] Sir, it is only a play... with music. Do not distress yourself.
[cosimo] It is only a play... with music? Does God say the same at every
death? It is only a play... with music? When I die, will someone say the
same? He was only a prince. He died. It was only a play... with music.
[Nun 2] (Very quietly) Sir, be grateful for the music. Most of us die in
silence.
[peter greenaway - the baby of macon]
- ------------- http://www.the-loft.demon.co.uk/moffie/ -------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:44:56 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] introductions
On Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 05:59:11PM -0500, jk ishovi wrote:
> overview, biography
> cage's early years
> expanded sound resources
[etc]
Sounds like a well-designed and intriguing class!
> i'm also taking a class on performance art and the avant guard which seems
> to contain a fair bit on cage and cunningham, as well as my newfound
> interest in robert wilson.
Hm! Sounds also worth taking (I'm somewhat of a Wilson fanatic, though
I find that some of his pieces work better than others).
Please let the rest of the class know about the Silence list. The
primary texts are a good source of knowledge about Cage, but people
here might also help fill in the gaps.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:21:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] introductions
I have a sneaking suspicion that this teacher may
already be a member of this list... Would you like to
give up a name? Rod
=====
http://rostasi.8m.com
http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html
Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:42:41 -0500
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>
Subject: Re(2): [silence] introductions
>> overview, biography
>> cage's early years
>> expanded sound resources
I'm glad they're covering the early years, and I hope equal time is given
to the late years and the visual art.
>Please let the rest of the class know about the Silence list. The
>primary texts are a good source of knowledge about Cage, but people
>here might also help fill in the gaps.
Especially the Revill...
>
>--
>|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
>| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
>| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
>| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
>-
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>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 16:12:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions
...also, I think "For the Birds" gives a nice
impression of Cage's character when dealing with other
people (serenity, humor, etc.) as interviewee.
If I could say, too, that whatever you learn during
this class - ALWAYS remember that Cage's philosophy is
NOT "anything goes".
Rod
=====
http://rostasi.8m.com
http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html
Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:28:52 -0600 (CST)
From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions
On Wed, 12 Jan 2000, Matthew Ross Davis wrote:
>
> >Please let the rest of the class know about the Silence list. The
> >primary texts are a good source of knowledge about Cage, but people
> >here might also help fill in the gaps.
>
> Especially the Revill...
If this means "fill in the gaps," especially [in] the Revill, I agree.
If it means that the Revill book helps to "fill in the gaps," I
disagree.
I find the Revill book to be lacking in historical and "interpretive"
depth, to be poorly documented, and one which containing errors and
misinterpretations.
If one follows -- page by page -- the references at the end of the book,
there are crucial sections that are not documented. I have the sad
feeling that Revill really did not know John Cage.
Lowell Cross
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------------------------------
End of silence-digest V1 #306
*****************************
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silence-digest Thursday, January 13 2000 Volume 01 : Number 307
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:42:08 +1100
From: "Chris Bieg" <CBieg@swin.edu.au>
Subject: [silence] Re: silence-digest V1 #306 (Christopher Bieg is on leave)
Christopher Bieg is currently on leave (somewhere in Eastern Europe) and
cannot accept any tasks / appointments. He will be back in early
February.
If you wish to contact him personally, try christopherbieg@netscape.com
and he might find time to reply.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:54:52 -0500
From: "\[jk\] ishovi" <moffie@iname.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] introductions
At 03:21 PM 12 . 01 . 00 -0800, you wrote:
>I have a sneaking suspicion that this teacher may
>already be a member of this list... Would you like to
>give up a name? Rod
i think she is
she gave out this list in the class!
Dr. Amy Clark Beal
- --------------------------------------------
[nun 1] Sir, it is only a play... with music. Do not distress yourself.
[cosimo] It is only a play... with music? Does God say the same at every
death? It is only a play... with music? When I die, will someone say the
same? He was only a prince. He died. It was only a play... with music.
[Nun 2] (Very quietly) Sir, be grateful for the music. Most of us die in
silence.
[peter greenaway - the baby of macon]
- ------------- http://www.the-loft.demon.co.uk/moffie/ -------------------
- -
[Searchable Silence archives: http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:59:16 -0500
From: "\[jk\] ishovi" <moffie@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions
At 04:12 PM 12 . 01 . 00 -0800, you wrote:
>...also, I think "For the Birds" gives a nice
>impression of Cage's character when dealing with other
>people (serenity, humor, etc.) as interviewee.
I will keep a look out for that....
i forgot to mention that I also have a copy of 'conversations with cage'
that i had picked up a few months ago, as well as I-VI with the cd which i
picked up in the college store.
>If I could say, too, that whatever you learn during
>this class - ALWAYS remember that Cage's philosophy is
>NOT "anything goes".
because, logically enough, what the kind of philosophy would that be?
no philosophy at all!
- --------------------------------------------
[nun 1] Sir, it is only a play... with music. Do not distress yourself.
[cosimo] It is only a play... with music? Does God say the same at every
death? It is only a play... with music? When I die, will someone say the
same? He was only a prince. He died. It was only a play... with music.
[Nun 2] (Very quietly) Sir, be grateful for the music. Most of us die in
silence.
[peter greenaway - the baby of macon]
- ------------- http://www.the-loft.demon.co.uk/moffie/ -------------------
- -
[Searchable Silence archives: http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]
[How to join, unsubscribe, etc: http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]
[ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the text "info silence" ]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:13:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] introductions
- --- Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 05:59:11PM -0500, jk ishovi
>
> > i'm also taking a class on performance art and the
> avant guard which seems
> > to contain a fair bit on cage and cunningham, as
> well as my newfound
> > interest in robert wilson.
>
> Hm! Sounds also worth taking (I'm somewhat of a
> Wilson fanatic, though
> I find that some of his pieces work better than
> others).
I love Wilson too. Y'all may already know
about the Wilson archive <www.robertwilson.com> --
great site, with info on some things that
are available for purchase. And a lot
of his performances videotaped from the
theatre, like _Einstein_, are available
for view in NY at the NYPL, I believe.
I want to try to go there some weekend
and see _Einstein_ again.
Rob
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:19:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions
Josef,
whatever else you read, read _I-VI_ --
even if you want to stop. Read it,
if you can, one lecture at a time
until you're done. Later on you'll
say it was one of the most amazing
experiences you've ever had. :)
Rob
- --- "[jk] ishovi" <moffie@iname.com> wrote:
> At 04:12 PM 12 . 01 . 00 -0800, you wrote:
> >...also, I think "For the Birds" gives a nice
> >impression of Cage's character when dealing with
> other
> >people (serenity, humor, etc.) as interviewee.
>
> I will keep a look out for that....
> i forgot to mention that I also have a copy of
> 'conversations with cage'
> that i had picked up a few months ago, as well as
> I-VI with the cd which i
> picked up in the college store.
>
> >If I could say, too, that whatever you learn during
> >this class - ALWAYS remember that Cage's philosophy
> is
> >NOT "anything goes".
>
> because, logically enough, what the kind of
> philosophy would that be?
> no philosophy at all!
>
> --------------------------------------------
> [nun 1] Sir, it is only a play... with music. Do not
> distress yourself.
>
> [cosimo] It is only a play... with music? Does God
> say the same at every
> death? It is only a play... with music? When I die,
> will someone say the
> same? He was only a prince. He died. It was only a
> play... with music.
>
> [Nun 2] (Very quietly) Sir, be grateful for the
> music. Most of us die in
> silence.
>
> [peter greenaway - the baby of macon]
> -------------
> http://www.the-loft.demon.co.uk/moffie/
> -------------------
> -
> [Searchable Silence archives:
> http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]
> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc:
> http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]
> [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the
> text "info silence" ]
>
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:30:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions
If I assign any readings from Revill,
I also have my students read Richard
Kostelanetz's review for _Notes._
Maybe one day soon one of the other
biographies will come out, or maybe
David Revill will do another edition,
correct the errors, and document his
sources more scrupulously.
Rob
- --- Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>
wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2000, Matthew Ross Davis wrote:
> >
> > >Please let the rest of the class know about the
> Silence list. The
> > >primary texts are a good source of knowledge
> about Cage, but people
> > >here might also help fill in the gaps.
> >
> > Especially the Revill...
>
> If this means "fill in the gaps," especially [in]
> the Revill, I agree.
> If it means that the Revill book helps to "fill in
> the gaps," I
> disagree.
>
> I find the Revill book to be lacking in historical
> and "interpretive"
> depth, to be poorly documented, and one which
> containing errors and
> misinterpretations.
>
> If one follows -- page by page -- the references at
> the end of the book,
> there are crucial sections that are not documented.
> I have the sad
> feeling that Revill really did not know John Cage.
>
> Lowell Cross
> -
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=====
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rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
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-- John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 21:52:15 -0500
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>
Subject: Re(4): [silence] introductions
On Wed, Jan 12, 2000, Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu> wrote:
>> >Please let the rest of the class know about the Silence list. The
>> >primary texts are a good source of knowledge about Cage, but people
>> >here might also help fill in the gaps.
>>
>> Especially the Revill...
>
>If this means "fill in the gaps," especially [in] the Revill, I agree.
>If it means that the Revill book helps to "fill in the gaps," I
>disagree.
This is precisely what I meant. I agree with all the points you make
about the book.
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Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 21:53:08 -0500
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>
Subject: Re(4): [silence] introductions
>If this means "fill in the gaps," especially [in] the Revill, I agree.
>If it means that the Revill book helps to "fill in the gaps," I
>disagree.
Buh, what I SHOULD have said was that I meant to fill in the gaps IN the
Revill. Sorry for that confusion!
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:20:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions
- --- Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Josef,
>
> whatever else you read, read _I-VI_ --
> even if you want to stop. Read it,
> if you can, one lecture at a time
> until you're done. Later on you'll
> say it was one of the most amazing
> experiences you've ever had. :)
Yes, and outloud if possible.
Also, I, too, agree with Lowell, Rob, & Matthew's
observations on the Revill.
Rod
=====
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Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:01:18 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] introductions
On Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 06:13:37PM -0800, Rob Haskins wrote:
> I love Wilson too. Y'all may already know
> about the Wilson archive <www.robertwilson.com> --
> great site, with info on some things that
> are available for purchase. And a lot
> of his performances videotaped from the
> theatre, like _Einstein_, are available
> for view in NY at the NYPL, I believe.
> I want to try to go there some weekend
> and see _Einstein_ again.
Yow. I'd definitely make a roadtrip for that...
- --
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:02:16 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions
On Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 06:19:12PM -0800, Rob Haskins wrote:
> whatever else you read, read _I-VI_ --
> even if you want to stop. Read it,
> if you can, one lecture at a time
> until you're done. Later on you'll
> say it was one of the most amazing
> experiences you've ever had. :)
And, if you can, read it *aloud*.
- --
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:04:29 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions
On Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 06:30:17PM -0800, Rob Haskins wrote:
> If I assign any readings from Revill,
> I also have my students read Richard
> Kostelanetz's review for _Notes._
> Maybe one day soon one of the other
> biographies will come out, or maybe
> David Revill will do another edition,
> correct the errors, and document his
> sources more scrupulously.
Don't forget James Pritchett's essential "The Music of John Cage".
I wonder whatever happened to the bio by Jill Johnston that was
supposed to come out last year. The publisher had listed it for a
while, but, last I looked, it had disappeared.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:37:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions
- --- Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 06:30:17PM -0800, Rob
> Haskins wrote:
> > If I assign any readings from Revill,
> > I also have my students read Richard
> > Kostelanetz's review for _Notes._
>
> Don't forget James Pritchett's essential "The Music
> of John Cage".
Oh, I never forget that one. It's absolutely
essential reading.
> I wonder whatever happened to the bio by Jill
> Johnston that was
> supposed to come out last year. The publisher had
> listed it for a
> while, but, last I looked, it had disappeared.
Dunno. Mark Swed was working on one and
so is Frans von Rossum.
Rob
=====
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rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 22:32:20 -0600 (CST)
From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>
Subject: [silence] Cage, Revill, at al.
On Wed, 12 Jan 2000, [jk] ishovi wrote:
> At 08:28 PM 12 . 01 . 00 -0600, Lowell Cross wrote:
> [snip]
> >I find the Revill book to be lacking in historical and "interpretive"
> >depth, to be poorly documented, and one which containing errors and
> >misinterpretations.
First, I apologize, there were typos there. It should have read "one
that *contains* errors ... ."
> this might be quite a lot to ask, but do you think you could offer some
> information on what exactly you feel is missing from this book? it could be
> very helpful when reading through it and in the in-class discussions.
As a student, you could write a term paper reviewing the Revill book for
your class. One of my criticisms is about his imprecise documentation.
Page by page, one finds unfortunate gaps in the references when looking
back at the narrative.
And that's what I find the book to be: a narrative, specifically an
anecdotal narrative, often unsubstantiated.
I'm reading a bio on Buddy Holly by Philip Norman entitled _Rave On_.
This "pulp"-"pop" piece is worse than Revill's bio of Cage, but it
reminds me that even Cage has received the same treatment in a bio that
various "pop" figures have. It seems that it's now OK to treat a
subject in an anecdotal, loosely documented manner if the subject is
popular enough, and/or famous enough, to withstand any kind of
"biographical" treatment whatsoever.
I may be, through no fault of my own, one of the only extant beings to
have known both John Cage and Buddy Holly personally. Otherwise, there
cannot be much of an excuse for my mentioning them together in the same
sentence except as cited above.
;-)
Sorry for the digression, and best wishes to all,
Lowell Cross
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 22:51:48 -0500
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>
Subject: Re(4): [silence] introductions
On Wed, Jan 12, 2000, Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Dunno. Mark Swed was working on one and
>so is Frans von Rossum.
I should add the David Patterson is also editing a new book on Cage,
which as I understand is nearly finished.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:37:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions
>
> And, if you can, read it *aloud*.
>
>
Yeah, that too!
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 00:18:01 EST
From: Acousticlv@aol.com
Subject: [silence] Re: mode cagerecords
<<
Yes, I noticed it for 24.49 where I usually get my CDs (I avoid Amazon).>>
all Modes not more than $15 from anomalousrecords.com---> <A
HREF="http://www.anomalousrecords.com/main.html">Anomalous - main</A>
love to all,
steve koenig
la folia music review, ny editor <www.lafolia.com><A
HREF="http://www.lafolia.com/">...La Folia Music Review</A>
jazzweekly, ny correspondent <www.jazzweekly.com><A
HREF="http://www.jazzweekly.com/">..Jazz Weekly</A>
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:48:48 +0330
From: "Arshia Cont" <cont@mavara.com>
Subject: [silence] another introducter..
Hi ishovi & all;
ishovi's introduction was what exactly I wanted to put on the list for
months but I couldnt come to.. . I'm
a young iranian student, adoring contemporary music & specially cage (My
music teacher used to call me
Cage's ambassador in Iran!)
We have a great lack of cultural activities in our country as one can
find no Cage works or books &
articles here about Cage. All I have I got it from abroad privately.
Recently I got Cage's Piano Concertos.. : Concerto for prep. piano &
orch. (1951) performed by Charles
Peltz (cond.) & Stephen Drury & also Concerto for Piano & orchestra
(1957-8) with David Tudor, piano &
live electrocnics & Ingo Metzmacher as conductor with Ensemble Modern.
Listening to many contemporary pieces such as works by Berio, Boulez,
Stockhausen, Saariaho &... I
was never confused this much! I would be really grateful if you give me some
hints on how & with what
idea I should listen to these pieces or the philosophy & the forms of the
pieces (if any..!) beyond these
two works which I know are the most important of his works or any refrence
on the net I could go after.. .
Let me apologize for asking such low-level question, But I'm sure it'll
be at great help for other young
Cage fans who are approaching their own aspects as well.
With great thanks. :)
Arshia Cont
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:38:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re(4): [silence] introductions
- --- Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 12, 2000, Rob Haskins
> <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Dunno. Mark Swed was working on one and
> >so is Frans von Rossum.
>
> I should add the David Patterson is also editing a
> new book on Cage,
> which as I understand is nearly finished.
Yes, that's the one he proposed to the
University of Rochester Press, adapted
from his dissertation. Should be great!
Anyone know Patterson's obituary-review that
was published in the journal _repercussions_?
That is a very thought-provoking piece,
too.
Rob
=====
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rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:51:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] another introducter..
Hi Arshia Cont,
Can you get the Pritchett book on Cage's
music? That will tell you a lot about
how many of the pieces are put together
and make some comments about their sound,
though the question of "how to listen"
would probably vary from listener to
listener. The "standard" line (that
seems quite a contradiction in terms)
is that you should try to listen in
such a way that everything seems to be
its own center, its own most important
place in the whole. Though I, with
my old-fashioned mode of listening
directionally, often trace
different pathways through the same
piece through successived listenings.
I try to find something new that I
haven't found before.
Rob
- --- Arshia Cont <cont@mavara.com> wrote:
> Hi ishovi & all;
>
> ishovi's introduction was what exactly I wanted
> to put on the list for
> months but I couldnt come to.. . I'm
> a young iranian student, adoring contemporary music
> & specially cage (My
> music teacher used to call me
> Cage's ambassador in Iran!)
> We have a great lack of cultural activities in
> our country as one can
> find no Cage works or books &
> articles here about Cage. All I have I got it from
> abroad privately.
> Recently I got Cage's Piano Concertos.. :
> Concerto for prep. piano &
> orch. (1951) performed by Charles
> Peltz (cond.) & Stephen Drury & also Concerto for
> Piano & orchestra
> (1957-8) with David Tudor, piano &
> live electrocnics & Ingo Metzmacher as conductor
> with Ensemble Modern.
> Listening to many contemporary pieces such as
> works by Berio, Boulez,
> Stockhausen, Saariaho &... I
> was never confused this much! I would be really
> grateful if you give me some
> hints on how & with what
> idea I should listen to these pieces or the
> philosophy & the forms of the
> pieces (if any..!) beyond these
> two works which I know are the most important of his
> works or any refrence
> on the net I could go after.. .
> Let me apologize for asking such low-level
> question, But I'm sure it'll
> be at great help for other young
> Cage fans who are approaching their own aspects as
> well.
> With great thanks. :)
>
>
> Arshia Cont
>
> -
> [Searchable Silence archives:
> http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]
> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc:
> http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]
> [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the
> text "info silence" ]
>
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:26:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Re: mode cagerecords
- --- Acousticlv@aol.com wrote:
>
> all Modes not more than $15 from
> anomalousrecords.com--->
Yes, I really like Anomalous, but is this true
for 2-CD sets as well?
Joseph's idea about getting it directly from
Brian is a good idea. The extra money that you pay
helps him (B.B.) put out more releases.
I have to admit tho' that when I do orders, I
usually do them in large quantities, so that's why I
often place orders from distributors instead of labels
(single mode CD for ex: $12.50) and I use Anomalous
and/or OtherMusic for harder to get items.
Rod
=====
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http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html
Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:55:49 +0100
From: "Samuelator X \(Omega Vriezen Version\)" <sqv@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [silence] Fugue
Just for the heck of it,
I'd like to advance this proposition:
The number pieces are in fact fugues with notes as subjects - or strettos
in fugues.
This may seem a bizarre or useless way of looking, but for me it explains
the temporal integrity of the structure which gives me an experience of
time quite similar to fugues by Bach or the more intricate renaissance
motets, through the way the textures 'lead' the attention from voice to
voice and the way at the same time tension is kept up by the law of let's
say the inner energy of the subject - if you hear a subject enter, a
tension field is set up which expects the subject to be heard fully. In the
number pieces, this tension field would consist of the way a good performer
will allow the sound to come into existence and then proceed naturally to
its decay.
Thus, to become more iconoclastic, late Cage actually connects with
Germanic traditions - which would mark a difference with the earlier stuff
that, to me, seems more generally understandable in a French sort of way
moving from one interesting sound object to another much as Debussy or
Messiaen might do.
Any of you have thoughts about this?
- - Samuel
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:02:01 EST
From: "T. Ankersmit" <t_ankersmit@hotmail.com>
Subject: [silence] mumma's writings
i've been looking for writings by gordon mumma, can anyone help?
apparently a collection of his essays was published at some point, is this
still in print?
thanks in advance,
thomas ankersmit.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:26:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Fugue
But the different parts in the Number pieces
are not identical in any way. So in what
sense are the notes "subjects" or (harder
to understand) "strettos"? Are you thinking
of one of the pieces in particular? If
you could name it, and describe where
you're thinking and in what parts, I
could understand what you're driving at.
Rob
- --- "Samuelator X (Omega Vriezen Version)"
<sqv@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Just for the heck of it,
>
> I'd like to advance this proposition:
>
> The number pieces are in fact fugues with notes as
> subjects - or strettos
> in fugues.
>
> This may seem a bizarre or useless way of looking,
> but for me it explains
> the temporal integrity of the structure which gives
> me an experience of
> time quite similar to fugues by Bach or the more
> intricate renaissance
> motets, through the way the textures 'lead' the
> attention from voice to
> voice and the way at the same time tension is kept
> up by the law of let's
> say the inner energy of the subject - if you hear a
> subject enter, a
> tension field is set up which expects the subject to
> be heard fully. In the
> number pieces, this tension field would consist of
> the way a good performer
> will allow the sound to come into existence and then
> proceed naturally to
> its decay.
>
> Thus, to become more iconoclastic, late Cage
> actually connects with
> Germanic traditions - which would mark a difference
> with the earlier stuff
> that, to me, seems more generally understandable in
> a French sort of way
> moving from one interesting sound object to another
> much as Debussy or
> Messiaen might do.
>
> Any of you have thoughts about this?
>
>
>
>
>
> - Samuel
>
>
>
>
> -
> [Searchable Silence archives:
> http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]
> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc:
> http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]
> [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the
> text "info silence" ]
>
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:02:15 +0100
From: Lasse Eriksson <lasse.eriksson@lepab.se>
Subject: [silence] (no subject)
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:12:48 +0100
From: "Samuelator X \(Omega Vriezen Version\)" <sqv@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [silence] Fugue
At 10:26 13-01-00 -0800, you wrote:
>But the different parts in the Number pieces
>are not identical in any way. So in what
>sense are the notes "subjects" or (harder
>to understand) "strettos"? Are you thinking
>of one of the pieces in particular? If
>you could name it, and describe where
>you're thinking and in what parts, I
>could understand what you're driving at.
>
>Rob
Well, a single note would be the full subject, (Why not?) and the
overlapping of the notes which you get (can get) in many of these pieces
would then be the stretto already.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:47:35 -0500
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>
Subject: Re(2): [silence] Fugue
More importantly, the parts are in no way related to each other. No
performer in a multiple-performer piece should be influenced by the
performance of any other.
Early on in his career, Cage *did* see himself as a "natural procession"
of the German tradition of which you speak - i.e. Mozart -> Brahms ->
Wagner -> Schoenberg -> Cage. However, he didn't really claim this at all
beyond those early years, nor did he embrace it very wholeheartedly.
Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, but if anything the early part of
his career was "German" (Schoenberg) and the middle and later parts were
"French" (Satie).
On Thu, Jan 13, 2000, Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:
>But the different parts in the Number pieces
>are not identical in any way. So in what
>sense are the notes "subjects" or (harder
>to understand) "strettos"? Are you thinking
>of one of the pieces in particular? If
>you could name it, and describe where
>you're thinking and in what parts, I
>could understand what you're driving at.
>
>Rob
>
>--- "Samuelator X (Omega Vriezen Version)"
><sqv@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>> Just for the heck of it,
>>
>> I'd like to advance this proposition:
>>
>> The number pieces are in fact fugues with notes as
>> subjects - or strettos
>> in fugues.
>>
>> This may seem a bizarre or useless way of looking,
>> but for me it explains
>> the temporal integrity of the structure which gives
>> me an experience of
>> time quite similar to fugues by Bach or the more
>> intricate renaissance
>> motets, through the way the textures 'lead' the
>> attention from voice to
>> voice and the way at the same time tension is kept
>> up by the law of let's
>> say the inner energy of the subject - if you hear a
>> subject enter, a
>> tension field is set up which expects the subject to
>> be heard fully. In the
>> number pieces, this tension field would consist of
>> the way a good performer
>> will allow the sound to come into existence and then
>> proceed naturally to
>> its decay.
>>
>> Thus, to become more iconoclastic, late Cage
>> actually connects with
>> Germanic traditions - which would mark a difference
>> with the earlier stuff
>> that, to me, seems more generally understandable in
>> a French sort of way
>> moving from one interesting sound object to another
>> much as Debussy or
>> Messiaen might do.
>>
>> Any of you have thoughts about this?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> - Samuel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> [Searchable Silence archives:
>> http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]
>> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc:
>> http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]
>> [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the
>> text "info silence" ]
>>
>
>=====
>Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
>rob_haskins@yahoo.com
>
>"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
> someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
> accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
> -- John Cage
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>http://im.yahoo.com
>-
>[Searchable Silence archives: http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]
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>[ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the text "info silence" ]
>
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------------------------------
End of silence-digest V1 #307
*****************************
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silence-digest Friday, January 21 2000 Volume 01 : Number 308
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 06:46:33 +1100
From: "Chris Bieg" <CBieg@swin.edu.au>
Subject: [silence] Re: silence-digest V1 #307 (Christopher Bieg is on leave)
Christopher Bieg is currently on leave (somewhere in Eastern Europe) and
cannot accept any tasks / appointments. He will be back in early
February.
If you wish to contact him personally, try christopherbieg@netscape.com
and he might find time to reply.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:56:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Alexander Burov <sashabur@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] John Cage meets Sun Ra
Greetings!
I see there are a lot of Cage experts. Could you
please answer the following question then?
Some people say there was the only concert
of John Cage w/ Sun Ra (which was recorded in 1986
and became an LP "John Cage meets Sun Ra"
(Meltdown MPA-1)), some people say there were more
concerts. Where is the truth? Could anybody on this
list add something about it? Has anybody witnessed/
heard of such a concert? (and, in this case, where
and when it took place)
Thank you in advance,
Sasha B.
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:57:24 -0500
From: Glenn Freeman <glennf@grfn.org>
Subject: Re: [silence] Fugue - The Number Pieces
That's it. "Silence Fugues (or inventions)"
If you take a look at THREE2 (1991) you will discover that MOST of part one is
scored for "instrument 3" and MOST of part 2 is scored for "instrument 1" and
MOST of part 3 is scored for "instrument 2". Many of the multiple-part number
pieces end up relating in this way...this is precisely due to the chance methods
set-up by Cage; and that's one of the whole points (or non-points) which might be
gained from these works.
Yes, when they overlap, a type of "counterpoint" is perceived at the NOTE-LEVEL
(TIMBRE-LEVEL). I agree! These are LONG spans of time, but this type of
perception is highly likely as we start to tune into this type of long-term listening/awareness...
...more interestingly...the silences present between notes become yet other
subjects or counter-subjects. So, if you are HEARING/AWARE of both the silences
AND the notes as subjects/counter-subjects, a loose sort of "stretto"
occurs...but subject-based counterpoint may be a better definition...please help
me here - theory experts!!!
Till later,
Glenn
PS - We are looking forward (and busily preparing) to our forthcoming John Cage
CD (March, 2000) offering, which will consist of...
THREE2 (1991)
Glenn Freeman, percussion
TWENTY-THREE (1988)
Christina Fong, violins/violas
Karen Krummel, cellos
SIX (1991)
Glenn Freeman, percussion
TWENTY-SIX (1991)
Christina Fong, violins
Bob wrote:
"But the different parts in the Number pieces are not identical in any way. So in
what sense are the notes "subjects" or (harder to understand) "strettos"? Are you
thinking of one of the pieces in particular? If you could name it, and describe
where you're thinking and in what parts, I could understand what you're driving at."
Omega Vriezen Version wrote:
"Just for the heck of it, I'd like to advance this proposition: The number pieces
are in fact fugues with notes as subjects - or strettos in fugues."
- -
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:42:11 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Fugue - The Number Pieces
I'd be quite interested in knowing how you approached the single-performer
multiple-part pieces. I suppose that they're multitracked, but there are
a lot of parameters involved. Were the performers able to hear the parts
they'd previously recorded? Did you do anything to ensure either that the
performers would forget what they had done previously, or that they would
not? The area is rich with possibilities...
On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 04:57:24PM -0500, Glenn Freeman wrote:
> PS - We are looking forward (and busily preparing) to our forthcoming John Cage
> CD (March, 2000) offering, which will consist of...
>
>
> THREE2 (1991)
> Glenn Freeman, percussion
>
> TWENTY-THREE (1988)
> Christina Fong, violins/violas
> Karen Krummel, cellos
>
> SIX (1991)
> Glenn Freeman, percussion
>
> TWENTY-SIX (1991)
> Christina Fong, violins
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 01:16:53 +0100
From: "Samuelator X \(Omega Vriezen Version\)" <sqv@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] Fugue
>More importantly, the parts are in no way related to each other. No
>performer in a multiple-performer piece should be influenced by the
>performance of any other.
True.
1. In the absence of more than one note for a theme the whole idea of a
complementary rhythm would break down, this is not an aspect that interests
me.
2. Harmony. The voices in a fugue move together in a harmonious pattern.
Now we know Cage felt these late pieces to have to do with harmony in a way
that previously his work hadn't (reading Schoenberg and all). - how does
this connect? I suppose harmony in these pieces is two things, and these
two things are the essence of what harmony always was: first, it's take the
time to let the sound resonate and acquire identity; second, it's good
voice leading. The view I'd like to propose some day interprets a single
note as containing the tension span of a theme and also lets a single notes
therefore be a good voice leading.
3. And of course, Cage still asks performers to listen while they're playing.
4. Perhaps I should not refer to fugue primarily but to the motet a la
Gombert, in which the voices overlap so much there is not much of
discursive interaction between the voices going on either.
>Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, but if anything the early part of
>his career was "German" (Schoenberg) and the middle and later parts were
>"French" (Satie).
I am proposing another kind of germanic tradition, perhaps it should
properly be thought of as the Burgundy/Flemish/Netherlands-German line.
For me, connecting what happens in the music of Ockeghem (and Bach) with
what the New York figures were doing may be a vital intellectual project,
maybe there's something to learn there...
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:56:14 -0500
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>
Subject: Re(4): [silence] Fugue
>1. In the absence of more than one note for a theme the whole idea of a
>complementary rhythm would break down, this is not an aspect that interests
>me.
Especially because complimentary rhythm is impossible with the
indeterminate nature of the pieces.
>2. Harmony. The voices in a fugue move together in a harmonious pattern.
>Now we know Cage felt these late pieces to have to do with harmony in a way
>that previously his work hadn't (reading Schoenberg and all). - how does
>this connect? I suppose harmony in these pieces is two things, and these
>two things are the essence of what harmony always was: first, it's take the
>time to let the sound resonate and acquire identity; second, it's good
>voice leading. The view I'd like to propose some day interprets a single
>note as containing the tension span of a theme and also lets a single notes
>therefore be a good voice leading.
Heh! Well, as cool and metaphysical as that might be, I think you're
walking on thin ice when you take terminology which applies to an older
and completely different style of music and try to make it fit to such an
extent within another style.
Identity I will agree with, it's what Cage was all about - the identity,
uniqueness and individual quality of each sound. The idea of harmony
which Cage was mentioning in these last years was an extremely general
one: that the sounds happen together.
The concept of voice leading is completely in contradiction with
practically anything Cage ever did, and to try and apply it to his music
is, I think, missing the point, however esoteric you get with it. Voice
leading by definition is the movement and progression of sounds through
time, where Cage's use of sound in these pieces - though we do *perceive*
them through time, indeed we experience them - are extremely vertical and
he ment them to be heard that way.
With the addition of defining a theme as a single note, it again simply
smells like an attempt to analyze new music with old terminology, which
just doesn't work and isn't practical, causing the definitions themselves
to be useless.
Obviously I'm of the opinion that history shouldn't be used to analyze
the present. Especially with Cage. We experience and live forward, we
don't experience backward.
>3. And of course, Cage still asks performers to listen while they're playing.
Does he?
>4. Perhaps I should not refer to fugue primarily but to the motet a la
>Gombert, in which the voices overlap so much there is not much of
>discursive interaction between the voices going on either.
I say it's an interesting comparison, it brings all kinds of things
within perspective of each other, and in many cases even share a similar
aesthetic. But I think the analysis stops there because any deeper -
theoretically speaking - they're apples and oranges. That may be your
point, that the challenge is to find the similarities of the
compositional styles, but I'll say again that I think it's missing the point.
>I am proposing another kind of germanic tradition, perhaps it should
>properly be thought of as the Burgundy/Flemish/Netherlands-German line.
I would be hesitant to place Cage within *any* tradition. :)
>For me, connecting what happens in the music of Ockeghem (and Bach) with
>what the New York figures were doing may be a vital intellectual project,
>maybe there's something to learn there...
Aesthetically I think this is a very interesting comparison, because very
often the same people who love early music also love contemporary music
and dislike everything inbetween (except maybe Mozart....*grin*). I think
the thing to learn here could be related to how such extreme differences
in compositional style, theory and technique can produce music so
aesthetically close.
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 00:33:45 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: Re(4): [silence] Fugue
On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 07:56:14PM -0500, Matthew Ross Davis wrote:
> >I am proposing another kind of germanic tradition, perhaps it should
> >properly be thought of as the Burgundy/Flemish/Netherlands-German line.
>
> I would be hesitant to place Cage within *any* tradition. :)
I think Cage does fit in with several traditions, though mostly very
American ones, as George Leonard's "Into the Light of Things" and
some of the essays in "Composed in America" show. He also thought of
himself, at least early on, as coming from both Schoenberg and Satie.
But perhaps the essential American tradition is the crunching
together of disparate strains and making something new. And, as
Phil Corner has pointed out, another key American tradition is that
each generation, like clockwork, rebels against the previous.
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 00:22:45 -0500
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>
Subject: Re(6): [silence] Fugue
On Fri, Jan 14, 2000, Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> wrote:
>On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 07:56:14PM -0500, Matthew Ross Davis wrote:
>
>> >I am proposing another kind of germanic tradition, perhaps it should
>> >properly be thought of as the Burgundy/Flemish/Netherlands-German line.
>>
>> I would be hesitant to place Cage within *any* tradition. :)
>
>I think Cage does fit in with several traditions, though mostly very
>American ones, as George Leonard's "Into the Light of Things" and
>some of the essays in "Composed in America" show. He also thought of
>himself, at least early on, as coming from both Schoenberg and Satie.
>But perhaps the essential American tradition is the crunching
>together of disparate strains and making something new. And, as
>Phil Corner has pointed out, another key American tradition is that
>each generation, like clockwork, rebels against the previous.
I probably should have said traditions that came before him, because I
agree that Cage can be placed into traditions which became formed as his
career moved along the path of American music. :)
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 06:45:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re(4): [silence] Fugue
- --- Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 07:56:14PM -0500, Matthew
> Ross Davis wrote:
>
> > >I am proposing another kind of germanic
> tradition, perhaps it should
> > >properly be thought of as the
> Burgundy/Flemish/Netherlands-German line.
> >
> > I would be hesitant to place Cage within *any*
> tradition. :)
>
> I think Cage does fit in with several traditions,
> though mostly very
> American ones, as George Leonard's "Into the Light
> of Things" and
> some of the essays in "Composed in America" show.
Absolutely. But what tradition does Cage's
work fit into after 1952 or so? (That's not
merely a rhetorical or ironic question!)
Rob
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:34:25 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: Re(4): [silence] Fugue
On Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 06:45:25AM -0800, Rob Haskins wrote:
> Absolutely. But what tradition does Cage's
> work fit into after 1952 or so? (That's not
> merely a rhetorical or ironic question!)
Well, historical musicology is far from my strong suite (Help! David!
:-] ), but I think there's still somewhat of the Ives, etc, influence,
as well as that of Webern and Satie. (Though those might be viewed as
unconnected.) In the American anti-tradition tradition (I'll have to
type in the bit from the Philip Corner interview from ... hmm, I've
forgotten the name of the journal, but i know where it is at home...),
he continued from what preceded him by combining earlier things and
soetimes expanding, sometimes negating. Would, for example, Cage have
come up with allowing all sound as music had Schoenberg not freed the
12 tones, and Varese, Russolo, etc, making their moves? Maybe,
but perhaps not as readily, or in the same way.
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|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:42:50 -0700
From: Larry Solomon <solo@azstarnet.com>
Subject: Re: Re(4): [silence] Fugue
There is an excellent book by David Nicholls, *American Experimental
Music, 1890-1940* that deals with Cage's place in the American
experimental tradition. Although the book title indicates an end date of
1940, I believe Nicholl's observations are easily extended to Cage's
music beyond his esthetic break after 1950.
BTW, has anyone seen/read Doug Kahn's new book, *Noise, Water, Meat, a
History of Sound in the Arts*? I am finding it to be difficult reading.
It contains the essay "John Cage: Silence and Silencing" that was
discussed here earlier and has the subcontent "Much to Confess About
Nothing; Canned Silence; Silencing Techniques; Cage and the Impossible
Inaudible".
- --
Cheers,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Larry J Solomon
The Center for the Arts, Pima College, Tucson, AZ 85709-0015
solo@azstarnet.com
Solomon's Music Theory & Composition Resources:
http://www.AzStarNet.com/~solo
Introduction to Music Theory Webcourse:
http://community.cc.pima.edu/classes/mus102/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:53:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re(4): [silence] Fugue
- --- Larry Solomon <solo@azstarnet.com> wrote:
> BTW, has anyone seen/read Doug Kahn's new book,
> *Noise, Water, Meat, a
> History of Sound in the Arts*? I am finding it to be
> difficult reading.
> It contains the essay "John Cage: Silence and
> Silencing" that was
> discussed here earlier and has the subcontent "Much
> to Confess About
> Nothing; Canned Silence; Silencing Techniques; Cage
> and the Impossible
> Inaudible".
> --
With Kahn's "Silence and Silencing," I found
that the jargon he was using was not familiar
enough to me always to understand the points
he was trying to make. But I'll need to
get the book! :)
Rob
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 20:19:10 +0100
From: Clemens Gresser <C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de>
Subject: [silence] problems with lists (sorry for sending this via the list)
Dear list members!
Sorry to bother the list about this:
In the last few days I keep receiving most messages from
SILENCE twice. Does this happen to anybody else or is this
just a local/personal problem?
Sorry again, for disturbing (the un-)SILENCE.
Regards,
Clemens Gresser
C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de
http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~cgresser
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:26:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Re: [silence] problems with lists (sorry for sending this via the list)
Hello Clemens Gresser and Silence list members,
I have had the same problem, but not consistently. Let's see what
happens with this message.
Lowell Cross
On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Clemens Gresser wrote:
> Dear list members!
>
> Sorry to bother the list about this:
> In the last few days I keep receiving most messages from
> SILENCE twice. Does this happen to anybody else or is this
> just a local/personal problem?
> Sorry again, for disturbing (the un-)SILENCE.
>
> Regards,
> Clemens Gresser
>
> C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de
> http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~cgresser
> -
> [Searchable Silence archives: http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]
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> [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the text "info silence" ]
>
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 15:32:46 EST
From: "Samantha Levin" <binnorie@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] problems with lists (sorry for sending this via the list)
I only get messages twice when someone is responding to me. Sometimes they
forget to remove my individual address from the "TO" section. I end up
getting their message directly from them and through the silence list.
This may be pointless information that everyone experiences...
Samantha
>From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>
>To: Clemens Gresser <C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de>
>CC: Silence <Silence@lists.realtime.net>
>Subject: Re: [silence] problems with lists (sorry for sending this via the
>list)
>Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:26:23 -0600 (CST)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from [205.238.128.216] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id
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>From owner-silence@lists.realtime.net Fri Jan 14 11:48:22 2000
>Delivered-To: silence-outgoing-outgoing@lists.bga.com
>Delivered-To: silence-outgoing@lists.bga.com
>Delivered-To: Silence@lists.realtime.net
>In-Reply-To: <E129CFF-0004iV-00@asturias.rz.uni-frankfurt.de>
>Message-Id:
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>Sender: owner-silence@lists.realtime.net
>Precedence: bulk
>
>Hello Clemens Gresser and Silence list members,
>
>I have had the same problem, but not consistently. Let's see what
>happens with this message.
>
>Lowell Cross
>
>
>On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Clemens Gresser wrote:
>
> > Dear list members!
> >
> > Sorry to bother the list about this:
> > In the last few days I keep receiving most messages from
> > SILENCE twice. Does this happen to anybody else or is this
> > just a local/personal problem?
> > Sorry again, for disturbing (the un-)SILENCE.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Clemens Gresser
> >
> > C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de
> > http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~cgresser
> > -
> > [Searchable Silence archives:
>http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]
> > [How to join, unsubscribe, etc:
>http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]
> > [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the text "info silence"
>]
> >
>-
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 05:01:37 -0700 (MST)
From: Christopher Shultis <cshultis@unm.edu>
Subject: Re: [silence] introduction
Dear Silencers,
A somewhat belated response to Josef's words of introduction only to draw
attention of the list to the excellent dissertation written by the person
whom I am certain is teaching the course on Cage he is presently taking.
Her name is Amy Beal and the dissertation is: "Patronage and Reception
History of American Experimental Music in West Germany: 1945-1986." This
academic-sounding title (it is, after all a dissertation!) may seem to be
only of interest to specialists, but I would really encourage readers of
this list to consider ordering a copy from University Microfilms. I don't
know the number but I'm sure author/title info would locate the work.
It reads almost like a detective novel, although with a lot more footnotes
and appendices, telling a very, very interesting story: why is it that
while composers of the so-called "experimental tradition" were being
completely ignored in the states for the most part, they achieved such
legendary status in Germany, as well as getting the opportunity of
commisions for some of their most important work. Those of you familiar
with Cage know, for example, how involved German radio was in supporting
so much of Cage's later work including, especially, his masterpiece
"Roaratorio." Why him and not Copland, on the conservative side, or
Babbitt, on the academic side--and in the latter case especially after
Cage being so famously ostracized by the Neue Musik community after his
appearance at "serialist" Darmstadt in 1958 (and not to return again until
1990)?
I'm living in Germany right in the thick of where much of that history
occurred and still see and hear the resonances of it daily. But it is a
story that not everyone knows, especially in the states, and it is a story
well told by somebody who has both talked to many (if not all) the
protagonists and looked at the primary sources that then back the stories
up.
What Amy Beal has written, in other words, is not just great
scholarship--it's a great read! I highly recommend it to all my
distinguished colleagues and friends on the silence list.
Best regards,
Chris Shultis
Anglistisches Seminar
Universitaet Heidelberg
On Wed, 12 Jan 2000, [jk] ishovi wrote:
> hello everyone!
> My name is josef kijewski
> I'm a student at Bates College in Lewiston, Maine
> and apart from having developed a deep interest in cage within the last year
> [although knowing almost nothing to substantiate that interest]
> I have enrolled in a class here specifically about him.
> I've also [obviously] signed up here
> for the purpose of reading what goes on
> and also participating as I can.
- -
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:31:45 -0800
From: abeal@abacus.bates.edu
Subject: Re: [silence] introduction
Many thanks, Chris, for the kind words. I'm delighted to know that my
research might be useful (and/or interesting!) for Silencers.
At 05:01 AM 1/18/00 -0700, Christopher Shultis wrote:
>Dear Silencers,
>
>A somewhat belated response to Josef's words of introduction only to draw
>attention of the list to the excellent dissertation written by the person
>whom I am certain is teaching the course on Cage he is presently taking.
>
>Her name is Amy Beal and the dissertation is: "Patronage and Reception
>History of American Experimental Music in West Germany: 1945-1986." This
>academic-sounding title (it is, after all a dissertation!) may seem to be
>only of interest to specialists, but I would really encourage readers of
>this list to consider ordering a copy from University Microfilms. I don't
>know the number but I'm sure author/title info would locate the work.
>
>It reads almost like a detective novel, although with a lot more footnotes
>and appendices, telling a very, very interesting story: why is it that
>while composers of the so-called "experimental tradition" were being
>completely ignored in the states for the most part, they achieved such
>legendary status in Germany, as well as getting the opportunity of
>commisions for some of their most important work. Those of you familiar
>with Cage know, for example, how involved German radio was in supporting
>so much of Cage's later work including, especially, his masterpiece
>"Roaratorio." Why him and not Copland, on the conservative side, or
>Babbitt, on the academic side--and in the latter case especially after
>Cage being so famously ostracized by the Neue Musik community after his
>appearance at "serialist" Darmstadt in 1958 (and not to return again until
>1990)?
>
>I'm living in Germany right in the thick of where much of that history
>occurred and still see and hear the resonances of it daily. But it is a
>story that not everyone knows, especially in the states, and it is a story
>well told by somebody who has both talked to many (if not all) the
>protagonists and looked at the primary sources that then back the stories
>up.
>
>What Amy Beal has written, in other words, is not just great
>scholarship--it's a great read! I highly recommend it to all my
>distinguished colleagues and friends on the silence list.
>
>Best regards,
>
>
>Chris Shultis
>Anglistisches Seminar
>Universitaet Heidelberg
>
>
>On Wed, 12 Jan 2000, [jk] ishovi wrote:
>
>> hello everyone!
>> My name is josef kijewski
>> I'm a student at Bates College in Lewiston, Maine
>> and apart from having developed a deep interest in cage within the last
year
>> [although knowing almost nothing to substantiate that interest]
>> I have enrolled in a class here specifically about him.
>> I've also [obviously] signed up here
>> for the purpose of reading what goes on
>> and also participating as I can.
>
>-
>[Searchable Silence archives: http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]
>[How to join, unsubscribe, etc: http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]
>[ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the text "info silence" ]
>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:14:41 +0100
From: Ingvar Loco Nordin <loco.nordin@mbox200.swipnet.se>
Subject: [silence] mode 20
Got the mode Cage series no 20 the other day (the new double CD where=20
Cage reads himself and Jasper Johns) Have you heard it yet? Never=20
heard Cage so vibrant, so intense, so close up. He's right there in=20
your room!
Loco
=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=
=9E
All places are here! All times are now!
=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=
=9E
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:01:42 EST
From: "T. Ankersmit" <t_ankersmit@hotmail.com>
Subject: [silence] kosugi texts/hear
looking for writings/publications by/about takehisa kosugi, and the current
address for the hear soundart foundation.
thanks in advance,
thomas ankersmit.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:54:02 -0500 (EST)
From: kos <kos@bway.net>
Subject: [silence] FW: Getty Library Research Grants (fwd)
I've forgotten if this appeared on the list, but in case it hasn't, I'm
sure it'll be of interest. -- Bob Kosovsky
______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________
GETTY LIBRARY RESEARCH GRANTS 2000
In anticipation of an international symposium to take place in May, 2001,
entitled "The Art of David Tudor: Indeterminacy and Performance in Postwar
Culture", the Getty Research Institute will award six grants for research on
the GRI's David Tudor Papers and related archival collections. Recipients
shall explore Tudor's methods of composition and performance and investigate
the legacy of his work within contemporary art, dance, and music.
Detailed instructions, application forms, and additional information are
available online at http://www.getty.edu/gri/research/grants.htm. Send
inquiries, or mail application materials to:
Nancy Perloff, Collections Curator
Getty Research Library
1200 Getty Center Drive, Suite 1100
Los Angeles, CA 90049-1688
Fax: (310) 440-7779
E-mail: davidtudorgrants@getty.edu
Special deadline for Tudor grant applications: April 1, 2000. Library
Research Grants applicants will be notified of grant decisions by May 1,
2000.
*************************************************************************
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:00:41 +0100
From: Clemens Gresser <C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de>
Subject: [silence] Boulez - Cage: radio speech of Boulez?
Dear Silencers,
I am currently working on the relationship between Cage and the
Western tradition and came across the following lines:
"1954: [...]
Cage meets Boulez again in Paris. In this year their
correspondence stops. 16 years later on French radio Boulez will
give an artistic reason for this, in which he distances himself from
Cage's musical development in the 50s."
[my translation of John Cage. Anarchic Harmony, ed. by Stefan
Schddler & Walter Zimmermann, Mainz (Schott) 1992, p. 313;
(book for the Frankfurt Feste '92/Alte Oper Frankfurt)]
German is as follows:
"1954: [...]
In Paris trifft Cage erneut Boulez. In diesem Jahr bricht der
Briefwechsel zwischen den beiden ab. Boulez wird 16 Jahre
spaeter am franzoesischen Radio eine kuenstlerische
Begruendung dafuer liefern, in der er sich von Cages musikalischer
Entwicklung in den 50er Jahren distanzierte."
Even though one can _imagine_ what Boulez would not have liked
about Cage's musical development in the 50s, it would be nice to
have this radio speech and to have "hard evidence". Does anybody
know if it was printed somewhere?
Maybe there is a reference in the published correspondence by
Nattiez (unfortunately, the book is on loan so I cannot have a look
myself, but I need to find this out fairly urgently!)?
Any help would be highly appreciated.
Cheers
Clemens
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:45:47 -0500
From: Louis Goldstein <louieg@wfu.edu>
Subject: [silence] Four3
Hello Silence List,
I am preparing a performance of Four3 for a program on February 1. The
instructions are written in Cage's usual stimulating "ambiguese." Does anyone
here know this piece? It might be interesting to compare possible interpretations
of the performance instructions. I will post them to the list, if this is of
general interest.
Best to all,
Louie
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:27:30 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Four3
On Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 11:45:47AM -0500, Louis Goldstein wrote:
> Hello Silence List,
>
> I am preparing a performance of Four3 for a program on February 1. The
> instructions are written in Cage's usual stimulating "ambiguese." Does anyone
> here know this piece? It might be interesting to compare possible interpretations
> of the performance instructions. I will post them to the list, if this is of
> general interest.
I'd be quite interested. We've done Four6, and have found some interesting
differences of view of interpretation. I tend to find the instructions
become less ambiguous the more you look at them, but some ambiguities
remain.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
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------------------------------
End of silence-digest V1 #308
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silence-digest Thursday, February 3 2000 Volume 01 : Number 309
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 04:01:28 +1100
From: "Chris Bieg" <CBieg@swin.edu.au>
Subject: [silence] Re: silence-digest V1 #308 (Christopher Bieg is on leave)
Christopher Bieg is currently on leave (somewhere in Eastern Europe) and
cannot accept any tasks / appointments. He will be back in early
February.
If you wish to contact him personally, try christopherbieg@netscape.com
and he might find time to reply.
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 09:10:12 -0800
From: mark and/or melissa <burzy@drizzle.com>
Subject: [silence] cage and duchamp
i saw a documentary on cage a while back and at one point they showed a clip of a chess match betwen
cage and duchamp...the two of them had set up a film camera above the game pointed at the board
etc...does anyone know if there is any video incarnation of this that i may be able to get my hands
on?...pal or ntsc, i can always have it converted
thanks,
mark schlipper
http://members.xoom.com/transients
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:43:31 -0600 (CST)
From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Re: [silence] cage and duchamp
Regarding the documentary, you might start with The John Cage Trust:
666 Greenwich St. #416
New York, NY 10014
tel 212-807-0646
fax 212-807-0443.
On a related topic, the publication date for _Leonardo Music Journal_ #9
has been delayed until March 2000 (it was originally announced for Dec.
1999). It is supposed to contain my article entitled "Reunion: John Cage,
Marcel Duchamp, Electronic Music, and Chess," with photos, diagrams,
etc., plus two excerpts from the 1968 performance on a CD accompanying
the publication.
Lowell Cross
On Fri, 21 Jan 2000, mark and/or melissa wrote:
> i saw a documentary on cage a while back and at one point they showed a clip of a chess match betwen
> cage and duchamp...the two of them had set up a film camera above the game pointed at the board
> etc...does anyone know if there is any video incarnation of this that i may be able to get my hands
> on?...pal or ntsc, i can always have it converted
> thanks,
> mark schlipper
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:28:27 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] cage and duchamp
On Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 09:10:12AM -0800, mark and/or melissa wrote:
> i saw a documentary on cage a while back and at one point they showed a clip of a chess match betwen
> cage and duchamp...the two of them had set up a film camera above the game pointed at the board
> etc...does anyone know if there is any video incarnation of this that i may be able to get my hands
> on?...pal or ntsc, i can always have it converted
> thanks,
You may be thinking of the chess game between Cage and Duchamp's widow,
with a chance-determined film being made of it, documented in the
video "I Have Nothing to Say and I am Saying It". The video (which is
quite good) is pretty widely available.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:12:39 +0100
From: np <rtoral@mail.telepac.pt>
Subject: [silence] how to unsubscribe?
Hi, sorry, but can someone remind me how to unsub silence?
Thanks a lot,
r
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:20:52 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] how to unsubscribe?
On Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 06:12:39PM +0100, np wrote:
> Hi, sorry, but can someone remind me how to unsub silence?
> Thanks a lot,
The bottom of every message on the list points to the information:
> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc: http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]
> [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the text "info silence" ]
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:13:11 EST
From: Kriist@aol.com
Subject: [silence] leonardo music journal #9, (was cage and duchamp)
do they have a web page?
id love to order that issue(or subscribe for hta tmatter)
thanks
rodrigo
> On a related topic, the publication date for _Leonardo Music Journal_ #9
> has been delayed until March 2000 (it was originally announced for Dec.
> 1999). It is supposed to contain my article entitled "Reunion: John Cage,
> Marcel Duchamp, Electronic Music, and Chess," with photos, diagrams,
> etc., plus two excerpts from the 1968 performance on a CD accompanying
> the publication.
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:40:16 -0500
From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com>
Subject: [silence] John Zorn, editor of Arcana: Musicians on Music
Thought this may be of interest to readers of this list (self-promotion
regrettable, but unavoidable...)
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 14:58:14 -0500
From: Steve Clay <sclay@granarybooks.com>
Subject: PROMO: John Zorn, editor of Arcana: Musicians on Music
Arcana: Musicians on Music
Edited by John Zorn
Answering a need for critical attention towards experimental and
avant-garde music, Arcana is a ground-breaking work as far-ranging and
dynamic as the current generation of musicians. Through manifestoes,
scores, interviews, notes and critical papers, performer/composers
address composing, playing, improvising, teaching, and thinking in and
through music. Rather than an attempt to distill or define musicians'
work, Arcana illuminates with personal vision and experience. Arcana is
a remarkable book-challenging and original-essential for composers,
musicans, theorists and fans alike.
"Arcana is a vibrant testimony to the continuing vitality of new music.
These exciting young composers are as idiosyncratic and eloquent with
words as they are with music."
-Meredith Monk. Composer / Singer
"Arcana, edited by John Zorn, is filled with writings by musicians from
all over the musical map. Interested in the sampling, deconstruction
and reconstruction of pop hooks? The historical sociobiology of the
downtown music scene? An American's reaction to the study of Gagaku?
Extended contrabass techniques? A savvy take on ear plugs, amplifier
distortion and pain? This is the book you've been looking for."
-Steve Reich. Composer / Performer
Contributors
Chris Brown, Anthony Coleman, Marilyn Crispell, Mark Dresser,
Stephen Drury, Bill Frisell, Fred Frith, Peter Garland,
Gerry Hemingway, Scott Johnson, Eyvind Kang, Guy Klucevsek,
George Lewis David Mahler, Miya Masaoka, Myra Melford,
Ikue Mori, Larry Ochs, Bob Ostertag, John Oswald, Mike Patton,
Marc Ribot, David Rosenboom, John Schott, Elliott Sharp,
David Shea, Frances-Marie Uitti, Lois V Vierk, Z'EV, and
John Zorn
380pp. illustrated. Contains a discography.
Should start showing up in bookstores about Feb., 1, 00
ISBN 1-887123-27-X
$24.95
Publisher: Granary Books / Hips Road
Further information at
http://www.granarybooks.com
Available at better bookstores, our primary distributor D.A.P.
(1-800-338-BOOK), SPD in Berkeley, or direct from the publisher
(orders@granarybooks.com).
- --steve
http://www.stephendrury.com
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 09:43:54 EST
From: KULTBOX@aol.com
Subject: [silence] Cage/ Chicago Reader
Crew-
This pop'ed up in the Chicago Reader this week...
http://www.chireader.com/hitsville/000121.html
- -r
kultbox records chicago
www.kultbox.com
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:01:51 -0500
From: David Beardsley <xouoxno@virtulink.com>
Subject: [silence] Winter concerts at the Dream House
MELA presents
Sundays in the Dream House
Two Memorial Concerts
Two of history's most important and yet to be understood composers
Richard Maxfield (1927 - 69)
Live and interactive tape music by one of America's first
electronic music composers and teachers.
January 23, 2000, 4 pm
Program includes:
Perspectives for La Monte Young (1961-62), performed by La Monte Young,
contrabass and Charles Curtis,
cello, with pre-recorded electronically manipulated live performance by
La Monte Young on stringed
instruments.
Piano Concert for David Tudor (1961) performed by Joseph Kubera,
Steinway grand piano.
Selected electronic works
*
Terry Jennings (1940 - 81)
Compositions for piano and strings by one of the
founders of minimalist keyboard music
January 30, 2000, 4 pm
Performed by
Charles Curtis, cello
Joseph Kubera, piano
Michael Schumacher, piano
La Monte Young, piano
Steinway Concert Grand provided courtesy Michael Schumacher
Admission $18 / 14 MELA members
MELA Foundation
275 Church Street, New York, NY 10013
212-925-8270
More information as it becomes available at
http://www.lamonteyoung.com
MELA's programs are made possible with public funds
from the New York State Council on the Arts, a State Agency.
- --
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* xouoxno@virtulink.com
*
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:46:14 -0600
From: Brian Brock <btbrock@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage is happy
The Chicago Reader article contains a characteristically beaming photo of
Cage. Was he always this happy, or did he just enjoy being photographed? A
mind and life such as his would surely be gratifying - but it's rare to see
so many photos of someone so ecstatic. Is this something that anyone can
explain? Any anecdotes or quotes would be especially appreciated.
Brian
KULTBOX@aol.com wrote:
> Crew-
>
> This pop'ed up in the Chicago Reader this week...
>
> http://www.chireader.com/hitsville/000121.html
>
> -r
> kultbox records chicago
> www.kultbox.com
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:40:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] Mills College Conference, 1995
I wonder if anyone knows if any of the
papers from the Mills College Cage Conference
in 1995 are in press, either in the form
of a conference proceedings or in various
journals. It seems to me that Chris Shultis's
paper on Cage and Thoreau did appear recently.
And in recent personal e-mail to me recently
Chris alluded to a paper by David Bernstein
on Cage and Schoenberg that I'd love to
see. There are couple of other ones that
looked great, too. If anyone (Chris?) knows
of plans to publish the other papers, please
let me know. Thanks.
Thanks!
Rob
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:07:43 -0800 (PST)
From: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Mills College Conference, 1995
Rob Haskins writes:
> I wonder if anyone knows if any of the
> papers from the Mills College Cage Conference
> in 1995 are in press, either in the form
> of a conference proceedings or in various
I was doing some research over at Mills about a month ago, and although I
missed seeing David Bernstein, he emailed me later that he'd just finished
a book containing essays from the Here Comes Everybody conference, and
that it should be out next fall. I don't know anything else about it,
but will check with him regarding publisher, etc.
- --Eric
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:04:10 -0500
From: Thomas Moore <tmoore@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [silence] leonardo music journal #9, (was cage and duchamp)
Kriist@aol.com wrote:
> do they have a web page?
> id love to order that issue(or subscribe for hta tmatter)
> thanks
> rodrigo
Rodrigo,
There are two of them:
http://mitpress.mit.edu/e-journals/Leonardo/lmj/sound.html
and
http://mitpress.mit.edu/journal-home.tcl?issn=09611215
Regards,
Tom Moore
- --
Thomas Moore
Director, Arts and Culture
UMBC
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
Phone: 410-455-3370
Fax: 410-455-1151
Email: tmoore@umbc.edu
WWW: http://www.umbc.edu/
http://research.umbc.edu/~tmoore/music.html
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:58:43 -0700
From: Larry Solomon <solo@azstarnet.com>
Subject: [silence] Tucson Cage gig
I am looking for an ensemble that can travel to Tucson to give a
possible concert of new music, preferably not minimal, containing works
by Cage and other experimentalists. Please respond privately.
- --
Cheers,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Larry J Solomon
The Center for the Arts, Pima College, Tucson, AZ 85709-0015
solo@azstarnet.com
Solomon's Music Theory & Composition Resources:
http://www.AzStarNet.com/~solo
Introduction to Music Theory Webcourse:
http://community.cc.pima.edu/classes/mus102/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:16:43 -0800 (PST)
From: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Mills College Conference, 1995
Hi everyone,
Following up, David Bernstein sent this along:
- --Eric
> The title of the book will be "Writings through John Cage's Music, Poetry,
> and Art." It will be published by the University of Chicago Press in Fall
> 2000. Here is the table of contents:
>
> Table of Contents
>
> Acknowledgements
>
> Introduction
> David W. Bernstein
>
> "In Order to Thicken the Plot": Toward a Critical Reception of Cages Music
> David W. Bernstein
>
> Cages Queer Silence or How to Avoid Making Matters Worse
> Jonathan Katz
>
> The Intent of the Musical Moment: Cage and the Transpersonal
> Austin Clarkson
>
> Cage as Performer
> Gordon Mumma
>
> As Time Passes
> Deborah Campana
>
> David Tudor and the Solo for Piano
> John Holzaepfel
>
> Here Comes Everything
> Paul van Emmerik
>
> Panel Discussion: Cages Influence
> (Gordon Mumma, Allan Kaprow, Christian Wolff, James Tenney, Maryanne
> Amacher, and Alvin Curran)
>
> Panel Discussion: Cage and the Computer
> (James Pritchett, Andrew Culver, James Tenney, and Frances White)
>
> Cages Writings up to the 1980s
> Jackson Mac Low
>
> Cage and the Structure of Chance
> Constance Lewalllen
>
> Diary: Cages Mountain Lake Workshop, April 8-15, 1990
> Ray Kass
>
> The Making of Cages One11
> Henning Lohner
>
> Contributors Biographies
- -
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:45:45 -0500
From: Myron Bennett <mcbennett@fuse.net>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage is happy
On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:46:14 -0600, Brian Brock wrote:
>The Chicago Reader article contains a characteristically beaming photo =
of
>Cage. Was he always this happy, or did he just enjoy being photographed?=
A
>mind and life such as his would surely be gratifying - but it's rare to =
see
>so many photos of someone so ecstatic. Is this something that anyone can
>explain? Any anecdotes or quotes would be especially appreciated.
>
>Brian
Seeing as how no one else has had anything to say about this, I'll
throw in my two cents worth. I just double checked a photo of him
from the time I knew him best, late 60s early 70s, and he is gently
smiling, thoughtfully. This is typical too.
Is it in Silence, or A Year From Monday that John says something like,
"I was born with a naturally sunny disposition." I think that
contributes to the smiles and the happiness, but from my experiences
with him, his smiles of delight came often, because an idea, a sound,
a sight would make him smile, or laugh in appreciation. Largely
because he would notice things that most of us don't. (After knowing
him a while, I found that I noticed more things, and that seeing a sky
full of clouds with no pattern was perhaps more interesting than
seeing clouds that looked like something.)
So I think he smiled a lot because he found a lot of things that
delighted him.
- --
Myron Bennett mcbennett@fuse.net
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:07:22 +0100
From: Neil.MCKETT-GNB@st.com
Subject: [silence] Sonic humour
Regarding Cage's sunny disposition I myself find that certain sounds are
amusing or delightful. In extreme cases I have been reduced to tears of
laughter by some unassuming noise. Indeed this once happened when I went
to see some guy about a band and he played me one of his songs and half
way through the intro some 'chimes' came in and it was more than I could
bear.
Some intentionally funny pieces work and others don't. A sad fact of
modern life seems to be that 'funny' is bad or 'strange' and 'strange is
bad'. Were fewer people deperate for a 'normal' existence then perhaps
they might rediscover that 'funny is good' and 'strange is good'. Music
us too wonderful to be taken 'serious'ly.
Cheers
Neil McKett
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:27:09 -0800
From: cuica@interworld.net
Subject: [silence] Four Walls
Hello all,
I've been away from the list for about a year, writing, playing, traveling.
Back now and wondering if anyone is familiar with a recording of "Four
Walls" by John McAlpine, piano and Beth Griffith, voice on the Largo
Records label. Any thoughts or opinions about the performance, label,
artists, or piece??
Bruce.
AXE'
cuica@interworld.net
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:55:19 +0100
From: Tim Ovens <ovens@hmt-hannover.de>
Subject: [silence] zoomoozophone
Hi all!
I am still working on a Cage CD-ROM and have some questions:
What is a zoomoozophone??!!
Who knows if there are more Cagey recipes besides those ones in
Kostelanetz' Cage anthology?
Thanks for help!
Tim
__________________________________________________
Tim Ovens
Pianist
Staatliche Hochschule fⁿr Musik und Theater Hannover
e-mail: ovens@hmt-hannover.de
website: http://www.mwserv.de/timovens
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:01:44 +0000
From: "Patrick Perratt" <p.perratt@vam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [silence] zoomoozophone
The zoomoozophone is an instrument invented by Dean Drummond of Newband, =
influenced by the inventions of Harry Partch. It consists of a number of =
suspended aluminium tubes, tuned microtonally. A full description can be =
found at the Newband homepage:
http://www.spyral.net/newband/zoomprimer.htm
This site is well worth a visit for its information on Partch and his =
instruments.
Patrick
>>> Tim Ovens <ovens@hmt-hannover.de> 01/27 11:55 am >>>
Hi all!
I am still working on a Cage CD-ROM and have some questions:
What is a zoomoozophone??!!
Who knows if there are more Cagey recipes besides those ones in
Kostelanetz' Cage anthology?
Thanks for help!
Tim
__________________________________________________
Tim Ovens
Pianist
Staatliche Hochschule f=FCr Musik und Theater Hannover
e-mail: ovens@hmt-hannover.de=20
website: http://www.mwserv.de/timovens=20
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:28:39 -0800
From: bedwellm@WellsFargo.COM
Subject: [silence] Interesting
THE SOUND OF CHAOS - Discovery Communications Inc.
http://www.discovery.com/stories/technology/fractals/fractals.html
"Those who hear fractal music for the first time find it hard
to describe... otherworldly, bizarre, fantastic. It's part of
a fractal universe - full of startling sights and sounds."
Contents include:
- The Music Makers - How do they do it and why?
- Create Your Own Chaos
- Fantastic Voyage - Enter a fractal image
- Hear What You See
- A Fractal World - See and hear fractal sights and sounds
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:57:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] A glass of chilly reality
I recently received a forward describing NPR's
most important 100 American pieces of the 20th
century. I reproduce their description of "most
important":
Here's our definition of "most important": By virtue
of its achievement, beauty, or excellence, the work is
an important milestone of American music in the 20th
century. It significantly changed the musical
landscape, opened new horizons, or in itself had a
major effect on American culture and civilization.
The 100 pieces were mostly musicals and popular
songs. I would argue about some of them fitting
the description of "most important". There
were 9 "classical" pieces. Some of the choices
are obvious; some very strange, I thought.
Since one piece is by Cage, I thought it
might be interesting to post here:
ADAGIO FOR STRINGS, SAMUEL BARBER (1938)
APPALACHIAN SPRING, AARON COPLAND (1944)
DRUMMING, STEVE REICH (1971)
4'33", JOHN CAGE (1952)
GRAND CANYON SUITE, FERDE GROFE (1931)
PSYCHO (film score), BERNARD HERRMANN (1960)
RHAPSODY IN BLUE, GEORGE GERSHWIN (1924); orchestrated
by FERDE GROFE (1924/1926/1942)
SYMPHONY OF PSALMS, IGOR STRAVINSKY (1930/1948)
WEST SIDE STORY (musical), words STEPHEN
SONDHEIM/music LEONARD BERNSTEIN (1957)
Rob
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:18:16 -0500
From: David Beardsley <xouoxno@virtulink.com>
Subject: [silence] 49/32 Radio Jan. archives up
49/32 Radio
"All microtonal music. All the time"
the worlds first all microtonal streaming audio program
January 2000 archived programs are now up:
http://www.virtulink.com/immp/jux/j_index.htm#events
Recent programs have featured:
James Pokorny, Acama, Tibetan Temple Bells, Johnny Reinhard,
Banda Polyphony, Central African Republic, Kenta Nagai and
Tatsuya Nakatani, Terry Riley, Easley Blackwood, Ivor Darreg,
John Starrett, Ernie Crews, Neil Haverstick, Jon Catler Group,
Steel Blue, and Birdhouse.
- --
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* xouoxno@virtulink.com
*
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:58:10 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: [silence] Cage Documentary at the National Gallery
The National Gallery films page at http://www.nga.gov/programs/filmart.htm
is listing the following:
John Cage: I Have Nothing To Say And I Am Saying It
9, 10, 11, 13 February at 12:30
Artist/musician John
Cage's lasting influence on twentieth-century thought and aesthetics is the
subject of this documentary survey made for American Masters.
(Allan Miller, 1990, 55 minutes).
It will be shown in the auditorium of the National Gallery's East
Building, 4th Street at Constitution Avenue N.W. in Washington DC.
There is no charge for admission. Seating for all events is on a
first-come, first-served basis.
For program information call (202) 842-6799.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 06:30:01 -0500
From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com>
Subject: [silence] upcoming concerts in Boston
For those in the Boston area:
"Cartridge Music" by John Cage, and "Dark River" for four amplified bass
drums, by John Zorn, along with improvisations by nmperign (Bhob Rainey and
Greg Kelley) - subtle, delicate, and freakin' weird.
8pm, Monday February 7, Brown Hall, New England Conservatory, 290 Huntington
Ave. Free.
also of interest:
music for banjo, pipa, guitar, and others by George Crumb, David Leisner and
Paul Elwood
featuring Min Xiao-Fen, pipa, David Leisner, guitar, Paul Elwood, banjo,
Stephen Drury, piano
8pm, Tuesday February 15, Jordan Hall, New England Conservatory, 290
Huntington Ave. Free.
- --steve
http://www.stephendrury.com
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:22:27 -0500 (EST)
From: David P Miller <dpmiller@world.std.com>
Subject: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
We're beginning to prepare for a performance of _Variations IV_ at Mobius
in Boston, the last weekend in May. The Cage/Tudor realization is
relatively well-known through its recording on Everest (LP)/Legacy (CD).
However, I at least know nothing about how Cage and Tudor used the score
to create their realization. If anyone has any information on this first
(I believe) performance, or can point me to a good source, I'd be most
grateful. I'm particularly, though not exclusively, interested in how they
chose the recordings they used, in addition to the live-miked sound that
was incorporated.
Thanks in advance !
David
dpmiller@world.std.com
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:18:53 -0800
From: Tim Song Jones <fodrjonz@ni.net>
Subject: [silence] Cage's birthplace?
Hi,
Does anyone know where Cage's exact birthplace is? And what was his
connection to Fontana, Calif?
Tim
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:33:02 -0000
From: "Clemens Gresser" <C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
On 1 Feb 00, at 12:22, David P Miller wrote:
[...]
> If anyone has any information on this first
> (I believe) performance, or can point me to a good source, I'd be most
> grateful. I'm particularly, though not exclusively, interested in how they
> chose the recordings they used, in addition to the live-miked sound that
> was incorporated.
Maybe, I am missing the point, but are you attempting an
"authentic" reconstruction of the first performance of Variations IV?
If so, I would say that this is probably the least thing Cage wanted
to happen. As far as I always understood this piece - and most of
his oeuvre - it is that it should be improvised.
Some members of this list might argue with me, but I believe that
the recordings are only giving us one possibility for _a_
performance. Therefore a recording of most of Cage's music is an
historical object - not the _"real"_ music, which ought to be
performed live and which ought to happen in the moment it is
performed.
Regards,
Clemens Gresser
cgresser@stud.uni-frankfurt.de
http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~cgresser
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:46:37 -0500 (EST)
From: David P Miller <dpmiller@world.std.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Clemens Gresser wrote:
> On 1 Feb 00, at 12:22, David P Miller wrote:
>
> [...]
> > If anyone has any information on this first
> > (I believe) performance, or can point me to a good source, I'd be most
> > grateful. I'm particularly, though not exclusively, interested in how they
> > chose the recordings they used, in addition to the live-miked sound that
> > was incorporated.
>
> Maybe, I am missing the point, but are you attempting an
> "authentic" reconstruction of the first performance of Variations IV?
Thanks for asking -- briefly, the answer is no. Our realization will be
particular to our physical site and artists involved. I really am
interested, though, in their decision-making processes, particularly with
regard to their selection of recordings, since the score itself says
nothing about prepared music. It's pretty clear that there's a
disconnection between the recording and the score as artifacts of a
process. We're working from the score.
This is a matter of curiosity, primarily.
David
dpmiller@world.std.com
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:54:43 -0500
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
On Thu, Feb 3, 2000, Clemens Gresser <C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de> wrote:
>Maybe, I am missing the point, but are you attempting an
>"authentic" reconstruction of the first performance of Variations IV?
>If so, I would say that this is probably the least thing Cage wanted
>to happen. As far as I always understood this piece - and most of
>his oeuvre - it is that it should be improvised.
>
>Some members of this list might argue with me, but I believe that
>the recordings are only giving us one possibility for _a_
>performance. Therefore a recording of most of Cage's music is an
>historical object - not the _"real"_ music, which ought to be
>performed live and which ought to happen in the moment it is
>performed.
Clemens, you're correct in stating that David shouldn't be approaching
Variations IV as a 'reconstruction' of what came before. However, what
you're suggesting here is even more erroneous interpretation of the
score. The Variations series of pieces are *extremely* specific, very
detailed in their structure, and don't involve improvisation hardly at
all. Yes, they are built with chance operations and transparencies, but
this in no way means the material is to be improvised.
My suggestion would be to study the score and its instructions and make
your own conclusions on what Cage's instructions mean. These texts are
always meticulously crafted to give very detailed and specific
instructions, especially in the case of Variations * or Theatre Piece,
where the performer is required to create a score based on included materials.
Once you've formulated what YOU believe the right way to approach it is,
I would then look at how others approached it and how that compares to
what you've decided (I think that's actually what David meant when he
asked the question, but I wanted to make sure). The approach originally
taken by Cage and Tudor may or may not be relevant to how you as a
performer would do this piece, and Cage certainly wouldn't have wanted
anyone to just copy the way he originally constructed his own performance.
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:09:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
- --- Clemens Gresser <C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de>
wrote:
> On 1 Feb 00, at 12:22, David P Miller wrote:
>
> [...]
> > If anyone has any information on this first
> > (I believe) performance, or can point me to a good
> source, I'd be most
> > grateful. I'm particularly, though not
> Maybe, I am missing the point, but are you
> attempting an
> "authentic" reconstruction of the first performance
> of Variations IV?
> If so, I would say that this is probably the least
> thing Cage wanted
> to happen. As far as I always understood this piece
> - and most of
> his oeuvre - it is that it should be improvised.
I'm really completely in the dark about this
last remark. Cage talks against improvisation
so many times--in the few pieces where he works
with improv., he does so with the express
purpose of creating a way in which the player
cannot improvise according to his/her taste.
All of the variations series have very detailed,
but ambiguous rules that clearly suggest there
are a number (but not an infinite number)
of possibilities to realize their performance.
I don't know if you remember the dialogue on
Variations III, Clemens, but you could see
Stephen Drury, <stevedrury@mindspring.com> "Re:
[silence] cage variations II and III," 15 September
1999, <silence@lists.realtime.net> via
<http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/text/silence1299.txt>
(4 January 2000). Also Rob Haskins,
<rob_haskins@yahoo.com> "[silence] Variations III Once
More (longish)," 31 October 1999
<silence@lists.realtime.net> via
<http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/text/silence1303.txt>
(4 January 2000) and its subsequent discussion there.
> Some members of this list might argue with me, but I
> believe that
> the recordings are only giving us one possibility
> for _a_
> performance. Therefore a recording of most of Cage's
> music is an
> historical object - not the _"real"_ music, which
> ought to be
> performed live and which ought to happen in the
> moment it is
> performed.
A recording is one document in a work's performance
history -- I think David had in mind listening
to the recording in that spirit, and not to
imitate it. In the case of Cage's pieces, those
performances are quite important in documenting
some of the possibilities and choices that
others have made.
Rob
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
End of silence-digest V1 #309
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silence-digest Friday, February 4 2000 Volume 01 : Number 310
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 12:26:08 -0500 (EST)
From: David P Miller <dpmiller@world.std.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Matthew Ross Davis wrote:
> Clemens, you're correct in stating that David shouldn't be approaching
> Variations IV as a 'reconstruction' of what came before.
[snip]
> Once you've formulated what YOU believe the right way to approach it is,
> I would then look at how others approached it and how that compares to
> what you've decided (I think that's actually what David meant when he
> asked the question, but I wanted to make sure).
You got it, that's what we're doing, thanks Matthew. Perhaps the original
question read too much like "Please inform me as to what the masters did
before I make a move," though I'm doubtful about that.
And just wait till we attempt the non-reconstruction of Variations V,
perhaps in another year, since the score consists largely of a description
of the event written after the fact!
So back to my question. Does anyone have any concrete information as to
how Cage and Tudor applied the score to their particular space, the
Feigen-Palmer Gallery in LA (I believe the name was), and especially the
means by which they selected and used recordings? We might not even use
recordings at all, by the way. But I'd genuinely like to know.
Thanks again --
David
dpmiller@world.std.com
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 12:51:05 -0500
From: Glenn Freeman <glennf@grfn.org>
Subject: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal
That strikes ALL of Cage's "number pieces"...right? I would also go as far as to
suggest it also strikes a complete performance of the Freeman Etudes. Is there
musical discrimination/ignorance going on here? If so, Cage might have been upset
by this discrimination...
:(
Larry Solomon wrote:
"I am looking for an ensemble that can travel to Tucson to give a possible
concert of new music, preferably not minimal"
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:53:57 -0800 (PST)
From: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>
Subject: [silence] note on the archives
Hi all,
After seeing Rob's citations of some of the messages in the silence
archive, it occured to me that I better post something about the state
of the html archive. I was keeping it current through quarter 4 of
last year, but hypermail blew up the first time I ran it this year and
it took out q4 of last year.
I am assuming this is a genuine y2k problem.
I was traveling much of January and haven't had time to see if there's
a patch for it or to patch it myself. But I"m aware of the problem and
feeling guilty about it.
- --Eric
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:37:11 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
On Thu, Feb 03, 2000 at 12:26:08PM -0500, David P Miller wrote:
> So back to my question. Does anyone have any concrete information as to
> how Cage and Tudor applied the score to their particular space, the
> Feigen-Palmer Gallery in LA (I believe the name was), and especially the
> means by which they selected and used recordings? We might not even use
> recordings at all, by the way. But I'd genuinely like to know.
You've probably thought of this already, but: you might contact the
gallery, if it still exists. Someone there might remember some details,
know someone who would, or even have documentation of the event.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:42:38 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal
On Thu, Feb 03, 2000 at 12:51:05PM -0500, Glenn Freeman wrote:
> That strikes ALL of Cage's "number pieces"...right? I would also go as far as to
> suggest it also strikes a complete performance of the Freeman Etudes. Is there
> musical discrimination/ignorance going on here? If so, Cage might have been upset
> by this discrimination...
>
> :(
>
> Larry Solomon wrote:
>
> "I am looking for an ensemble that can travel to Tucson to give a possible
> concert of new music, preferably not minimal"
I read this as meaning not (small-m) minimal, in the sense of spare use
of few items, but as (capital-M) Minimal, in terms of the style using
repetitive consonance. Thus, the might be seeking Feldman and Cage, but
not Adams or Glass.
But I might just be getting too Talmudic...
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:28:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] note on the archives
YOW! I want to cite those messages in
my dissertation!!! C9ould the problem
eventually affect the rest of the archive?
Rob
- --- "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> After seeing Rob's citations of some of the messages
> in the silence
> archive, it occured to me that I better post
> something about the state
> of the html archive. I was keeping it current
> through quarter 4 of
> last year, but hypermail blew up the first time I
> ran it this year and
> it took out q4 of last year.
>
> I am assuming this is a genuine y2k problem.
>
> I was traveling much of January and haven't had time
> to see if there's
> a patch for it or to patch it myself. But I"m aware
> of the problem and
> feeling guilty about it.
>
> --Eric
> -
> [Searchable Silence archives:
> http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]
> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc:
> http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]
> [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the
> text "info silence" ]
>
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:30:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal
- --- Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 03, 2000 at 12:51:05PM -0500, Glenn
> Freeman wrote:
> > That strikes ALL of Cage's "number
> pieces"...right? I would also go as far as to
> > suggest it also strikes a complete performance of
> the Freeman Etudes. Is there
> > musical discrimination/ignorance going on here? If
> so, Cage might have been upset
> > by this discrimination...
> >
> > :(
> >
> > Larry Solomon wrote:
> >
> > "I am looking for an ensemble that can travel to
> Tucson to give a possible
> > concert of new music, preferably not minimal"
>
> I read this as meaning not (small-m) minimal, in the
> sense of spare use
> of few items, but as (capital-M) Minimal, in terms
> of the style using
> repetitive consonance. Thus, the might be seeking
> Feldman and Cage, but
> not Adams or Glass.
That's how I read it too--consonant, pulsed,
repetitive music. I love it but can understand
that not everyone shares that love.
Rob
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:34:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
- --- Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> wrote:
> Clemens, you're correct in stating that David
> shouldn't be approaching
> Variations IV as a 'reconstruction' of what came
> before.
Why not? I know David isn't doing that,
but it wouldn't be much different from
what the performance practice movement
has done with Bach or Mozart? i would
be very interested in a reconstruction
of, say, _HPSCHD_--I'm sure it would be
satisfying musically and aesthetically.
I do think it's dangerous when we decide
what should and shouldn't be done in
a performance too quickly. I'm not
necessarily saying that Matthew is doing
that, but it's a question of great
interest to me.
Rob
Rob
> However, what
> you're suggesting here is even more erroneous
> interpretation of the
> score. The Variations series of pieces are
> *extremely* specific, very
> detailed in their structure, and don't involve
> improvisation hardly at
> all. Yes, they are built with chance operations and
> transparencies, but
> this in no way means the material is to be
> improvised.
>
> My suggestion would be to study the score and its
> instructions and make
> your own conclusions on what Cage's instructions
> mean. These texts are
> always meticulously crafted to give very detailed
> and specific
> instructions, especially in the case of Variations *
> or Theatre Piece,
> where the performer is required to create a score
> based on included materials.
>
> Once you've formulated what YOU believe the right
> way to approach it is,
> I would then look at how others approached it and
> how that compares to
> what you've decided (I think that's actually what
> David meant when he
> asked the question, but I wanted to make sure). The
> approach originally
> taken by Cage and Tudor may or may not be relevant
> to how you as a
> performer would do this piece, and Cage certainly
> wouldn't have wanted
> anyone to just copy the way he originally
> constructed his own performance.
>
> --
> | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
> | | | | | | | | |
> | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d -
> a - v - i - s | |
> | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | | | |
> | | | | | | | | |
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> http://www.artswire.org/comma | |
> | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
> | | | | | | | | |
>
> -
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>
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:38:29 -0800 (PST)
From: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] note on the archives
Rob Haskins writes:
> YOW! I want to cite those messages in
> my dissertation!!! C9ould the problem
> eventually affect the rest of the archive?
Whoa whoa whoa!
For one thing, you're citing the TEXT versions of the majordomo digests.
Those aren't going anywhere, aren't affected by this problem, and are
up to date and indexed.
The problem comes when breaking up the digests into individual messages,
adding some hypertext markup to them, and threading them via hypermail,
and that's the HTML version. The advantage of that version is that you
could aim people directly to an individual message.
Joseph's sent me a pointer to some recent work on hypermail, which I
wasn't aware of; I thought it was an piece of software orphaned by the
demise of eit.com.
- --Eric
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 12:32:35 -0700
From: Larry Solomon <solo@azstarnet.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal
Glenn Freeman wrote:
>
> That strikes ALL of Cage's "number pieces"...right? I would also go as far as to
> suggest it also strikes a complete performance of the Freeman Etudes. Is there
> musical discrimination/ignorance going on here? If so, Cage might have been upset
> by this discrimination...
>
> :(
I think that this is jumping to unfair conclusions. We've had quite a
number of minimal music concerts here in recent years. We are simply
trying to balance this with other types of new music. Also, we are
seeking a variety, rather than say a whole concert of one or two pieces.
So, some short minimal works could be included.
- --
Cheers,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Larry J Solomon
The Center for the Arts, Pima College
2202 West Anklam Road, Tucson, AZ 85709-0015
Solomon's Music Theory & Composition Resources:
http://www.AzStarNet.com/~solo
Introduction to Music Theory Webcourse:
http://community.cc.pima.edu/classes/mus102/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:40:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] note on the archives
- --- "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com> wrote:
> Rob Haskins writes:
>
> > YOW! I want to cite those messages in
> Whoa whoa whoa!
>
> For one thing, you're citing the TEXT versions of
> the majordomo digests.
> Those aren't going anywhere, aren't affected by this
> problem, and are
> up to date and indexed.
Good. Yeah, I tried the hypertext version
proably after January and found
them completely unuseable. I'm
a "no bells and whistles" kind of guy.
I'm just learning to use transparencies.
:)
Rob
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 14:41:29 -0500
From: Glenn Evans <gevans@mail.hall.public.lib.ga.us>
Subject: [silence] Cage's Birthplace
Message to Tim Song Jones--
Cage was born in Los Angeles CA 9/5/1912 ------his connection
to Fontana CA is that he lived there (during composition of "Fontana
Mix").....this info is off the top of my head...may I refer you to an
excellent biography published recently (within a few years)... The
Roaring Silence:John Cage:a life
by David Revill.......very detailed--it even lists addresses.....a good
read.
Snave Evans
<Nichi nichi kore ko nichi>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 15:05:04 -0500
From: Glenn Evans <gevans@mail.hall.public.lib.ga.us>
Subject: [silence] Cage/Duchamp chess game
Message to Mark Schlipper:
The film in question is currently playing at the Whitney Museum
in NY through Feb 13 2000 as part of the American Century 1950-2000
exhibit......as well as some other interviews on tape and the score of
"Water Music" which is really quite lovely to see up close in
person....Hurry! only 10 days left!
Snave Evans
<Nichi nichi kore ko nichi>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 15:05:14 -0600 (CST)
From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
As one who performed in Variations IV with Cage and Tudor, I can testify
that there was indeed "improvisation" going on -- depending, of course,
upon one's definition of the term.
In particular, the activities of David Tudor in performances of
Variations IV and similar works were "independent" of score materials
(transparencies, etc.) or instructions. In spite of his formidable
powers of memorization, I am sure that DT did not even try to commit to
memory any of the "variables" within the range of possibilities in those
Variations performances, and then proceeded to accomplish his performance
tasks out of that memory. In reality, he appeared at the concert venue,
unpacked his electronic gadgets, set them up, and expected (hoped?) that
they would be operational at the start of the performance.
He then proceeded to *improvise* on his own equipment.
JC usually had a set of notes relating to what he planned to do, but if
DT referred to anything on paper (and he didn't with any predictability),
it would have been to consult a setup diagram of his gadgetry -- not
score materials.
David's activities were usually quite pragmatic -- and often on the verge
of crisis management (he was always in charge of the technical setup of
the equipment, with John hoping to "make himself useful"). One memorable
performance was at the University of Rochester (NOT sponsored by the
Eastman School of Music), in 1966 as I recall. David asked that I bring
my "Stirrer" with me to create the illusion of sound moving around the
audience (I was a graduate student at the University of Toronto then),
and John thought that it was a great idea. The use of such equipment is
not specified in the score instructions -- also as I recall. ;-)
After the performance, we were invited to Norman O. Brown's house. He
expressed his regret to John that "your equipment failed you" (i.e.,
the sound system with the ubiquitous cheap contact microphones). There
WAS a lot of 60/120/180/240 Hz hum and buzz that evening, but John just
took it (the hum & buzz) in his stride as well as Brown's remark. I did
ask JC on this occasion if he included hum in the range of "any and
all" sounds he that considered to be permissible in music. He grinned
and said, "It is the one sound that we try to avoid."
LC
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 12:38:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
Lowell:
It
is stories like this that make this discussion group absolutely
GREAT! Rod
- --- Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu> wrote:
> As one who performed in Variations IV with Cage and Tudor, I
> can testify
> that there was indeed "improvisation" going on -- depending,
> of course,
> upon one's definition of the term...
=====
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http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html
Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 15:57:21 -0500
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>
Subject: Re: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal
No, I don't think this applies to Cage's number pieces at all.
Larry, perhaps you can give some clarification as to what you mean by
"minimal"?
On Thu, Feb 3, 2000, Glenn Freeman <glennf@grfn.org> wrote:
>That strikes ALL of Cage's "number pieces"...right? I would also go as far as
>to
>suggest it also strikes a complete performance of the Freeman Etudes. Is
there
>musical discrimination/ignorance going on here? If so, Cage might have been
>upset
>by this discrimination...
>
>:(
>
>Larry Solomon wrote:
>
>"I am looking for an ensemble that can travel to Tucson to give a possible
>concert of new music, preferably not minimal"
>-
>[Searchable Silence archives: http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]
>[How to join, unsubscribe, etc: http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]
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>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:26:18 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage's Birthplace
On Thu, Feb 03, 2000 at 02:41:29PM -0500, Glenn Evans wrote:
> Cage was born in Los Angeles CA 9/5/1912 ------his connection
> to Fontana CA is that he lived there (during composition of "Fontana
> Mix").....this info is off the top of my head...may I refer you to an
> excellent biography published recently (within a few years)... The
> Roaring Silence:John Cage:a life
> by David Revill.......very detailed--it even lists addresses.....a good
> read.
As a look through the archives will show, many have questioned the
information in The Roaring Silence. For solid Cage information, I'd
recommend James Pritchett's "The Music of John Cage". There's also
interesting information about his early years in "Composed in America",
a collection of papers about him from a few years back.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 14:39:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage's Birthplace
I think Fontana refers to Italy. Didn't
he do Fontana Mix at the studio in Italy
that Berio ran? I'm almost positive of
this but not near any sources.
Rob
- --- Glenn Evans <gevans@mail.hall.public.lib.ga.us>
wrote:
> Message to Tim Song Jones--
> Cage was born in Los Angeles CA 9/5/1912
> ------his connection
> to Fontana CA is that he lived there (during
> composition of "Fontana
> Mix").....this info is off the top of my head...may
> I refer you to an
> excellent biography published recently (within a few
> years)... The
> Roaring Silence:John Cage:a life
> by David Revill.......very detailed--it even lists
> addresses.....a good
> read.
>
> Snave Evans
>
> <Nichi nichi kore ko nichi>
> -
> [Searchable Silence archives:
> http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]
> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc:
> http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]
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> text "info silence" ]
>
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 14:42:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
There's a world of difference, don't you think,
between David Tudor improvising and Joe Everyone
improvising. Which I think led Cage to the
"Music of Contingency" pieces to begin with.
- --- Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>
wrote:
> As one who performed in Variations IV with Cage and
> Tudor, I can testify
> that there was indeed "improvisation" going on --
> depending, of course,
> upon one's definition of the term.
>
> In particular, the activities of David Tudor in
> performances of
> Variations IV and similar works were "independent"
> of score materials
> (transparencies, etc.) or instructions. In spite of
> his formidable
> powers of memorization, I am sure that DT did not
> even try to commit to
> memory any of the "variables" within the range of
> possibilities in those
> Variations performances, and then proceeded to
> accomplish his performance
> tasks out of that memory. In reality, he appeared
> at the concert venue,
> unpacked his electronic gadgets, set them up, and
> expected (hoped?) that
> they would be operational at the start of the
> performance.
>
> He then proceeded to *improvise* on his own
> equipment.
>
> JC usually had a set of notes relating to what he
> planned to do, but if
> DT referred to anything on paper (and he didn't with
> any predictability),
> it would have been to consult a setup diagram of his
> gadgetry -- not
> score materials.
>
> David's activities were usually quite pragmatic --
> and often on the verge
> of crisis management (he was always in charge of the
> technical setup of
> the equipment, with John hoping to "make himself
> useful"). One memorable
> performance was at the University of Rochester (NOT
> sponsored by the
> Eastman School of Music), in 1966 as I recall.
> David asked that I bring
> my "Stirrer" with me to create the illusion of sound
> moving around the
> audience (I was a graduate student at the University
> of Toronto then),
> and John thought that it was a great idea. The use
> of such equipment is
> not specified in the score instructions -- also as I
> recall. ;-)
>
> After the performance, we were invited to Norman O.
> Brown's house. He
> expressed his regret to John that "your equipment
> failed you" (i.e.,
> the sound system with the ubiquitous cheap contact
> microphones). There
> WAS a lot of 60/120/180/240 Hz hum and buzz that
> evening, but John just
> took it (the hum & buzz) in his stride as well as
> Brown's remark. I did
> ask JC on this occasion if he included hum in the
> range of "any and
> all" sounds he that considered to be permissible in
> music. He grinned
> and said, "It is the one sound that we try to
> avoid."
>
> LC
>
>
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 15:05:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] Fontana Mix
- --- Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I think Fontana refers to Italy. Didn't
> he do Fontana Mix at the studio in Italy
> that Berio ran?
Actually it was named after his landlady: Signora Fontana. It
was originally going to be called "Performance Mix"
R2K
=====
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http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html
Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:01:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Fontana Mix
THanks Rod. From Pritchett:
_Music Walk_ and _TV K:oln_ had been composed
during the first leg of Cage's European tour
in the fall of 1958 His next major work,
_Fontana Mix_ (1958) was the product of the
next part of this tour, a three-month stay
in Italy Cage had been invited to Milan
[not Rome--sorry about that] by Luciano
Berio in order to create a work for magnetic
tape at the studio of the Milan Radio. . . .
then jp discusses the origin of the name,
as Rod reported it.
- --- Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> --- Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I think Fontana refers to Italy. Didn't
> > he do Fontana Mix at the studio in Italy
> > that Berio ran?
>
> Actually it was named after his landlady: Signora
> Fontana. It
> was originally going to be called "Performance Mix"
>
> R2K
>
> =====
> http://rostasi.8m.com
>
>
http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html
>
> Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is
> therefore of no use except when you have something
> particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of
> carrots. - John Cage
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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>
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:17:27 +0100
From: "Daniel Wolf" <djwolf@snafu.de>
Subject: [silence] Cage's birthplace
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The best place to check for this sort of information is in an article by =
Robert Stevenson in his Inter-American Music Journal. (Unfortunately, I =
don't have the exact reference in hand). Stevenson took the trouble to =
search LA phone directories and the like.=20
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Stevenson took the trouble to search LA phone directories and the like.=20
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:50:18 -0500 (EST)
From: David P Miller <dpmiller@world.std.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Rob Haskins wrote (in reply to Matthew's post):
> > Clemens, you're correct in stating that David
> > shouldn't be approaching
> > Variations IV as a 'reconstruction' of what came
> > before.
>
> Why not? I know David isn't doing that,
> but it wouldn't be much different from
> what the performance practice movement
> has done with Bach or Mozart? i would
> be very interested in a reconstruction
> of, say, _HPSCHD_--I'm sure it would be
> satisfying musically and aesthetically.
This actually is an interesting conversation that has emerged, tangent to
my original question. The reconstruction issue really will be something
when we at Mobius get to _Variations V_, as I hinted earlier. BTW, I
should put this all in a little more context. I have adopted this quixotic
project to work through the entire Variations cycle in order. Why? To see
what happens, to get an experiential sense of what sort of "cycle" it
really is -- esp. given that the pieces were written across 20 years, and
do mutate significantly in their explicit concerns and notational form.
We've already done the first two pieces, primarily in a concert in Sept.
1998 which featured multiple overlapping realizations.
Anyway, since the score for _Variations V_ is entirely written
documentation of a past event, with various gnomic expressions
interspersed, a real reconstruction would involve assembling the
personnel, such as Robert Moog and Merce Cunningham, who are named in the
score. That's outside my budget for sure! I am considering posing the
question to the people I work with, "If this were a description of a
multimedia event produced in 2002, what would that event be?" I have no
preconceptions as to the outcome.
David
dpmiller@world.std.com
P.S. The concert will be May 26-27. Save the dates if you're going to be
in a hundred-mile or so radius of Boston. ;-)
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:59:41 -0500 (EST)
From: David P Miller <dpmiller@world.std.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
Lowell, thanks a million. I knew there was somebody on the list with some
direct knowledge! From what little I know about David Tudor, it doesn't
surprise me a lot that he'd basically come in, set up his rig, and take
off. Now, you may not have actually been privy to this aspect of things at
the time, but you know that the score does relate some minimal elements on
transparencies (two circles, seven dots) to a ground plan of the given
space in order to determine one or several patterns of sound sources. Did
Tudor work with a reading of the score to any extent -- either his own
reading or one that Cage provided, possibly? And (again) the prerecorded
sound that so dominates the Everest/Legacy recording, and gives the
impression of a pop art performance -- any notion as to how these were
selected and used?
Sorry if I'm being just too persistent on this --
David
dpmiller@world.std.com
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:31:19 -0600 (CST)
From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, David P Miller wrote:
> Now, you may not have actually been privy to this aspect of things at
> the time, but you know that the score does relate some minimal elements on
> transparencies (two circles, seven dots) to a ground plan of the given
> space in order to determine one or several patterns of sound sources. Did
> Tudor work with a reading of the score to any extent -- either his own
> reading or one that Cage provided, possibly?
I'm sure that DT was familiar with the score and the transparencies. He
apparently just didn't feel the need to refer to those materials, before
or during an event, to proceed with his own contributions to the
performances of Variations IV -- or any of the other "Variations" pieces,
for that matter. I witnessed him in performances of Variations II, III,
IV, VI, and VII (at the "9 Evenings"), and this list is just off the top
of my head.
As I said, he essentially performed independently in those Cage concerts.
And -- his own "independent" performances, on his own collection of
custom-made electronic devices, during pieces "signed" by Cage (and
others), " ... led him to discover the means for producing his own
works." [See my biographical entry on DT in the E.P. Dutton _Dictionary
of Contemporary Music_, John Vinton, ed.]
> And (again) the prerecorded
> sound that so dominates the Everest/Legacy recording, and gives the
> impression of a pop art performance -- any notion as to how these were
> selected and used?
I need to see if I can find that recording before I offer an
interpretation.
LC
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------------------------------
End of silence-digest V1 #310
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:11:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage's birthplace
Three good articles on Cage's early years:
Stevenson, Robert. "John Cage on his 70th Birthday:
West Coast Background." _Inter-American Music Review_
5, no. 1 (Fall 1982): 3-17.
Michael Hicks, "Cage's Studies with Schoenberg,"
_American Music_ 8 (1990): 125-40.
Thomas J. Hines, "'Then Not Yet "Cage"': The Los
Angeles Years," in Marjorie Perloff and Charles
Junkerman, eds., _John Cage: Composed in America
(Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1994), 65-99.
For an interesting (but problematic) view
of some early Cage events from a feminist
perspective, see:
Catherine Parsons Smith, "Athena at the Manuscript
Club: John Cage and Mary Cary Moore," _Musical
Quarterly_ 79 (1995): 351-67.
And for a rare glimpse into the personality
of the young Cage as revealed in his own
correspondence, see:
Maureen Mary, "Letters: the Brief Love of John Cage
for Pauline Schindler, 1934-35," _Ex Tempore_ 8, no. 1
(Summer 1996): 1-26.
- --- Daniel Wolf <djwolf@snafu.de> wrote:
> The best place to check for this sort of information
> is in an article by Robert Stevenson in his
> Inter-American Music Journal. (Unfortunately, I
> don't have the exact reference in hand). Stevenson
> took the trouble to search LA phone directories and
> the like.
>
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:42:30 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage's birthplace
On Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 12:17:27AM +0100, Daniel Wolf wrote:
> The best place to check for this sort of information is in an article by Robert Stevenson in his Inter-American Music Journal. (Unfortunately, I don't have the exact reference in hand). Stevenson took the trouble to search LA phone directories and the like.
I think this is the Inter-American Music Review (not Journal) from the
results of a quick Web search. It looks like a lot of college libraries
carry it.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:01:41 -0800 (PST)
From: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] note on the archives
Hi,
I've installed a fresh version of hypermail and reprocessed the whole
history of the silence list, no mean task. It's up to date, and I'll
continue to update it based on the release of list digests.
The archive has inherited the look of the largely revised New Albion
site, which you might want to take a look at if you haven't wandered
through recently. It's still very simple, and I'm going to be redoing the
artist/composer pages, but the site's easier to navigate, there are track
lists for everything, and there are a fair number of RealAudio samples
scattered throughout. New Albion is alive and well, and to my taste,
the recent releases by Terry Riley, Matthias Ziegler, Stefano Scodanibbio,
the live performances from the Henry Cowell festival, and the re-release
(with an extra track) of Stephen Scott's first recording of bowed piano
music are really quite fine.
- --Eric
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:48:29 -0600 (CST)
From: Craig B Parker <cbp@ksu.edu>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage's birthplace?
On Tue, 1 Feb 2000, Tim Song Jones wrote:
> Hi,
> Does anyone know where Cage's exact birthplace is? And what was his
> connection to Fontana, Calif?
> Tim
> -
Robert Stevenson's article, "John Cage on His 70th Birthday: West Coast
Background," Inter-American Music Review, V/1 (Fall 1982), 3-17, contains
the following statement on page 4:
"John Milton Cage, Jr.'s birth certificate signed by C. W. Seeber,
attending physician, September 7, 1912, attests delivery of the
composer-to-be, September 5 at A.M. in Good Samaritan Hospital, Los
Angeles. His 26-year-old father's occupation is listed on the certificate
as 'Mechanic (Ship Builder),' and his then residence is given as Long
Beach. His 27-year-old mother, maiden name Lucretia Harvey, is certified
as having been born in Iowa, and his parents are listed as having had one
previous child, no longer living."
This meticulously-researched article (Stevenson examined city directories,
high school and college yearbooks, patent applications, and many other
non-musical sources, as well as two teachers who worked with Cage when he
was on the staff at the UCLA elementary school) is essential reading for
all those interested in Cage's early years.
Craig B. Parker,Ph.D.
Kansas State University
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:14:50 -0700 (MST)
From: Christopher Shultis <cshultis@unm.edu>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
Dear David,
I would check the Getty in Los Angeles (they hold the David Tudor
Archives) and see if they have anything. I've heard that Tudor saved alot
and I've also heard that the Getty's website makes it easy to see what
they have. Lots of "hear"-say here but maybe that collection would have
Tudor's notes on the performance. Worth a look anyway!
All best,
Chris Shultis
> So back to my question. Does anyone have any concrete information as to
> how Cage and Tudor applied the score to their particular space, the
> Feigen-Palmer Gallery in LA (I believe the name was), and especially the
> means by which they selected and used recordings? We might not even use
> recordings at all, by the way. But I'd genuinely like to know.
>
> Thanks again --
>
> David
> dpmiller@world.std.com
>
>
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>
Christopher Shultis cshultis@unm.edu
University of New Mexico Department of Music
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 13:38:01 +0000
From: John Whiting <john.whiting@which.net>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
Rob Haskins wrote:
>
> There's a world of difference, don't you think,
> between David Tudor improvising and Joe Everyone
> improvising.
Remember Cage's observation that he disliked improvisation because it was
so predictable.
John Whiting
Diatribal Press
London
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 13:59:35 -0000
From: "Clemens Gresser" <C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
On 4 Feb 00, at 13:38, John Whiting wrote:
> Rob Haskins wrote:
> >
> > There's a world of difference, don't you think,
> > between David Tudor improvising and Joe Everyone
> > improvising.
To which John Whiting commented:
> Remember Cage's observation that he disliked improvisation because it was
> so predictable.
I am not a native English speaker and wonder how to call it though.
Regards,
Clemens
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 07:28:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
Hi Clemens,
- --- Clemens Gresser <C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de>
wrote:
> On 4 Feb 00, at 13:38, John Whiting wrote:
>
> > Rob Haskins wrote:
> > >
> > > There's a world of difference, don't you think,
> > > between David Tudor improvising and Joe Everyone
> > > improvising.
>
> To which John Whiting commented:
> > Remember Cage's observation that he disliked
> improvisation because it was
> > so predictable.
> I am not a native English speaker and wonder how to
> call it though.
> Regards,
> Clemens
What would you call it in German?
Rob
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:04:27 -0700
From: Larry Solomon <solo@azstarnet.com>
Subject: [silence] Minimal
I was taken aback by Glenn Freeman's response to my inquiry for a Cage
gig here. It was part of my hope to provide an opportunity for new music
ensembles as well as an opportunity for our community to hear a spectrum
of new music. I presented this to the list with optimism and enthusiasm.
To then have my motives questioned and to be accused of "ignorance" and
prejudice, I found to be very surprising and disappointing. (The term
"discriminating" I like.) Nevertheless upon reflection, it seems that
there is a need for refinement of the term "minimal", because there are
so many different types. Does anyone know of a classification?
I would, of course, love to have a representation of Cage's number
pieces, some of which I have had the privlege to perform myself.
Feldman's shorter pieces would also be most welcome. We have had a
number of concerts, recently, which consisted of long works with
repeated consonant triads and the like. (I consider New Age to be a
popular branch of minimalism.) Nothing wrong with this, okay. We are
just looking for something a little different now -- specifically a
range of diverse styles within one concert. I think that we are entitled
to seek a specific kind of programming without being called "ignorant"
and prejudiced. I could only hope for an apology. ;)
- --
Cheers,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Larry J Solomon
The Center for the Arts, Pima College
2202 West Anklam Road, Tucson, AZ 85709-0015
Solomon's Music Theory & Composition Resources:
http://www.AzStarNet.com/~solo
Introduction to Music Theory Webcourse:
http://community.cc.pima.edu/classes/mus102/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:13:31 -0500
From: charles shere <shere@compuserve.com>
Subject: [silence] JC and improvisation
In 1976 I attended the rehearsal of Atlas Eclipticalis (I think it was
AtEcl, but won't swear to it) at the San Jose Symphony, John Cage
conducting.
At one point the first trumpet played an ascending chromatic scale, rathe=
r
ostentatiously. Everyone looked at John to see what he'd do.
Without interrupting the rehearsal he looked toward the trumpet player an=
d
said "Trumpet, you shouldn't be playing a scale."
The trumpetplayer said something to the effect that his part allowed him =
to
play an undetermined sequence of notes at that point. Everyone continued =
to
play, but looked all the keener at John to see what he'd say, thus
challenged.
He said Yes, but any good musician would know that a scale would not be a=
n
appropriate sequence of notes in the context.
This really happened; I was there and saw and heard it. The trumpeter
didn't misbehave again, and the musicians respected the conductor for
having handled the situation with authority and in good humor.
It reminds us that throughout his work as composer and performer Cage is =
a
MUSICIAN, and expects musicianship from his performers. One must pay the
closest of attention to everything.
Further, John Whiting recalls Cage saying, at a rehearsal with the Electr=
ic
Phoenix for whom Whiting mixes audio, "The I Ching chooses the answers, b=
ut
you have to choose the questions." =
Charles Shere
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 09:50:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
I want to ask
Lowell whether he remembers ANY significant difference in
David's performing of the various "Variations". I
ask because just because a performer doesn't have the score in
front of him/her, it doesn't mean that the performance is not
related to the score. There are many
scores of which one can study (or in David's case - just look
at) and commit to memory the basic "wind" of it and proceed to
your equipment/instrument and perform a "realization". One
could be giving an organ concert of Brown's "December 1952" and
follow it with a realization of Bland's "Speed" without having
either score in front of you.
Rod
=====
http://rostasi.8m.com
http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html
Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 20:33:41 +0100
From: Tim Ovens <ovens@hmt-hannover.de>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
Rob Haskins schrieb:
> >
> > To which John Whiting commented:
> > > Remember Cage's observation that he disliked
> > improvisation because it was
> > > so predictable.
>
>
>
> What would you call it in German?
>
> Rob
Do you mean the German translation?
"Denke an Cages Bemerkung, dass er Improvisation nicht mochte, weil sie so
vorhersehbar ist."
In "Pour les Oiseaux" (German "Fⁿr die V÷gel", Merve Verlag) Cage speaks in
the sixth chapter on improvisation (here in jazz music). He ever feels, also
in free jazz, that the jazz isn't free. There are bounds of ideas and musical
relationships. He did work together with some free jazz musicians in Chicago,
so he tells. He gave them the advice not to listen to the playing of the
others, walking around when playing. Cage did try to disturb the conversation
in improvising to let the music free out of any conventions.
Tim
- --
__________________________________________________
Tim Ovens
Pianist
Staatliche Hochschule fⁿr Musik und Theater Hannover
e-mail: ovens@hmt-hannover.de
website: http://www.mwserv.de/timovens
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 16:06:38 -0500
From: Glenn Freeman <glennf@grfn.org>
Subject: Re: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal
I know about Larry's work and I commend him and anyone actively doing new music
of any type and in any way; just thought the statement was screaming for a a
small debate, especially on the silence list... :) :) :)
You might notice how many critics have used the word "minimal" here...
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ts/music-reviews/B00002SWSJ/chrisfongviolivi/002-1424208-8505818
The ideas of "minimal/nonminimal" present an interesting dilemma for those who
are actively doing new music with an open mind, especially those focusing on the
"so-called" minimal music for which Larry is referring to. However; in music,
what does minimal really mean? The definition can be VERY wide and can also
contradict itself. Any further ideas on this?
Glenn
Matthew Ross Davis writes:
"No, I don't think this applies to Cage's number pieces at all. Larry, perhaps
you can give some clarification as to what you mean by "minimal"?"
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:01:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
- --- Tim Ovens <ovens@hmt-hannover.de> wrote:
>
>
> Rob Haskins schrieb:
>
> > >
> > > To which John Whiting commented:
> > > > Remember Cage's observation that he disliked
> > > improvisation because it was
> > > > so predictable.
> >
> >
> >
> > What would you call it in German?
> >
> > Rob
>
> Do you mean the German translation?
No. Since Clemens was using the word "improvisation"
and since he seemed to say it was a general
aspect of Cage's performance (which confused
me a great deal), I questioned him on
this. And his reply implied he was thinking
of a German word for which is a possible
English translation is improvisation.
I just wondered what word he had in mind.
If I misunderstood Clemens, I'm sorry.
Let's wait until he responds.
Rob
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:05:38 -0600 (CST)
From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
On Fri, 4 Feb 2000, Rod Stasick wrote:
> I want to ask
> Lowell whether he remembers ANY significant difference in
> David's performing of the various "Variations".
I could ask:
Do you mean 1) the same specific piece, as Variations VII (in which I
participated twice, the performances only a day apart), or 2) across the
the whole set of "Variations" pieces?
While I heard (and participated in) a limited number of the Variations
pieces, beginning with Variations II and III (performed simultaneously),
my answer to the question -- in both situations 1) and 2) above would
have to be "Yes, of course."
David Tudor was always trying out something new with his equipment -- a
new module, a new set of interconnections, and various gain, threshold,
feedback, modulation, dynamic, frequency, and transducer choices,
settings, and adjustments. He worked with a large array of variables.
Now if you ask me to give specific examples of these differences, one
performance to the next, I would be very hard pressed to do so. It would
be silly to say "On one night, David concentrated on sounds from feedback
routed through his selection of diodes; on another, he concentrated on
the effects he could obtain by allowing his almost-dead batteries to
weaken to a point of no return."
These were very specific techniques in his "performance practice;"
perhaps I am giving away some of his secrets and shouldn't be. In
actuality, he drew upon an entire gamut of effects in a single evening.
I am prepared to call his activities on such occasions "improvisatory;"
but one could call them "stream of consciousness," "spontaneous," or
"making it up as you go along."
I
> ask because just because a performer doesn't have the score in
> front of him/her, it doesn't mean that the performance is not
> related to the score.
I don't believe that there really is a score for Variations VII, just
some notes by JC and a schematic diagram made by one of the Bell Labs
engineers for the "9 Evenings." If I am wrong, I would be very pleased
to learn about a "real" score. In any event, on the schematic diagram,
there is a rectangle in which is the designation "David's Own." John
Cage was quite prepared to let David Tudor do whatever he wanted to with
his own modules in Cage's works; in fact, he welcomed DT's activities,
whether one acknowledges those activities as improvisation or not.
But *I* have no problem calling DT's activities during Cage concerts
"improvisation," in fact, I think that it is an appropriate choice of
terminology. What JC himself did is a different matter entirely, of
course.
Lowell Cross
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:58:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt9@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] Re: tudor/improv
- --- Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:
> There's a world of difference, don't you think,
> between David Tudor improvising and Joe Everyone
> improvising. Which I think led Cage to the
> "Music of Contingency" pieces to begin with.
This is a really interesting point, and I'm very
pleased to learn that Cage was enthusiastic about
Tudor's improvising (big thanks to Lowell Cross).
I really can't help but add that I think there are a
great many improvisers around today whose music Cage
would really enjoy. As a serious follower of
improvised music, I've noticed that with a lot of
"cutting edge" improv, there seems to be less emphasis
on collective discourse and expression (jazz-derived
values) and more emphasis on the pursuit of new sounds
and sound relationships/interactions (modern
classical-derived values). For instance, Kevin Drumm
and Otomo Yoshihide are two artists whose music, I
feel, completely defies both Cage's criticism of
improv as empty gesture and also the hackneyed dynamic
arcs of the "genre".
For anyone interested, I think Drumm's first record on
Perdition Plastics (solo prepared guitar) and the
self-titled disc on Alcohol by I.S.O. (an
electro-acoustic trio led by Otomo) are prime examples
of what I'm talking about, both of which are permeated
with a very Cage-ean... "arbitrariness" (for big lack
of a better term) to the quality and placement of
sound.
-Tom Pratt
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 22:41:20 -0600 (CST)
From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Re: [silence] Re: tudor/improv
On Fri, 4 Feb 2000, Tom Pratt wrote:
>
> This is a really interesting point, and I'm very
> pleased to learn that Cage was enthusiastic about
> Tudor's improvising (big thanks to Lowell Cross).
Thank you, Tom, for your kind words, but I think that we have to be
careful about assuming that Cage was "enthusiastic" about DT's
contributions, improvisatory or otherwise. Perhaps "appreciative"
is a more appropriate word.
Cage's emotions were quite genuine, but publicly restrained. He felt
very indebted to David Tudor, of course, but in a private, personal
sort of way.
LC
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:00:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV
- --- Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 4 Feb 2000, Rod Stasick wrote:
>
> > I want to ask
> > Lowell whether he remembers ANY significant difference in
> > David's performing of the various "Variations".
>
> I could ask:
>
> Do you mean 1) the same specific piece, as Variations VII (in
> which I
> participated twice, the performances only a day apart), or 2)
> across the
> the whole set of "Variations" pieces?
Well, I was referring to your second option. I wasn't expecting
specifics - I was rather referring to the idea that instead of
going out onstage with the attitude of *playing in the workshop*
with one's equipment that rather David would have the picture of
the score in his mind while doing what he did best. Tho' I
didn't know David as well as I did John, (David would always
call Jerry Hunt and/or myself when in town) some of the times
that we spent speaking (and others' observations) always yielded
comments surrounding an amazing memory for detail when it came
to scores. I guess my *take* on his performances of each of the
"Variations" would be that he did his own *very David
Tudor-like* "realization" of the works that were based on a
picture of a score in his head instead of an "improvisation" -
someone else with the same equipment would, of course, do a
different realization, but not have that "Tudor-like" stamp that
he brought to it. Hmm? Rod
>
> While I heard (and participated in) a limited number of the
> Variations
> pieces, beginning with Variations II and III (performed
> simultaneously),
> my answer to the question -- in both situations 1) and 2)
> above would
> have to be "Yes, of course."
>
> David Tudor was always trying out something new with his
> equipment -- a
> new module, a new set of interconnections, and various gain,
> threshold,
> feedback, modulation, dynamic, frequency, and transducer
> choices,
> settings, and adjustments. He worked with a large array of
> variables.
>
> Now if you ask me to give specific examples of these
> differences, one
> performance to the next, I would be very hard pressed to do
> so. It would
> be silly to say "On one night, David concentrated on sounds
> from feedback
> routed through his selection of diodes; on another, he
> concentrated on
> the effects he could obtain by allowing his almost-dead
> batteries to
> weaken to a point of no return."
>
> These were very specific techniques in his "performance
> practice;"
> perhaps I am giving away some of his secrets and shouldn't be.
> In
> actuality, he drew upon an entire gamut of effects in a single
> evening.
>
> I am prepared to call his activities on such occasions
> "improvisatory;"
> but one could call them "stream of consciousness,"
> "spontaneous," or
> "making it up as you go along."
>
> I
> > ask because just because a performer doesn't have the score
> in
> > front of him/her, it doesn't mean that the performance is
> not
> > related to the score.
>
> I don't believe that there really is a score for Variations
> VII, just
> some notes by JC and a schematic diagram made by one of the
> Bell Labs
> engineers for the "9 Evenings." If I am wrong, I would be
> very pleased
> to learn about a "real" score. In any event, on the schematic
> diagram,
> there is a rectangle in which is the designation "David's
> Own." John
> Cage was quite prepared to let David Tudor do whatever he
> wanted to with
> his own modules in Cage's works; in fact, he welcomed DT's
> activities,
> whether one acknowledges those activities as improvisation or
> not.
>
> But *I* have no problem calling DT's activities during Cage
> concerts
> "improvisation," in fact, I think that it is an appropriate
> choice of
> terminology. What JC himself did is a different matter
> entirely, of
> course.
>
> Lowell Cross
>
>
=====
http://rostasi.8m.com
http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:46:51 +0100
From: "Daniel Wolf" <djwolf@snafu.de>
Subject: Re: [silence] Re: tudor/improv
Cage was astonishly reticent about how the musicians for the Cunningham
company worked. In part this is because he simply avoided learning details
about the electronics. That was the province of Tudor and the third musician
at the table (Dunn, Cross, Mumma, Behrman, Kosugi etc.) Further, the
question of improvisation and its relationship to composition seems to have
been very problematic for Cage. There is a long evolution in his own work
from scores which demand considerable interpretation through the music of
contingency and on to the scores which specifically call for improvisation.
The constant in his own work was (with the exception perhaps of certain
Variations) the presence of a score. But the work of most others played by
the company musicians ad long since ceased to include written scores, and
did often involve explicit improvisation within a given configuration of
resources.
One has the impression that Cage was making an increasingly unsustainable
distinction between improvisation as it was done "out there" by others and
improvisation as it was done by the company musicians. It has to be
considered that what was possible under the term improvisation "out there"
changed very much during Cage's career. When, in his early writings, he
criticized improvisation, the object of the criticism was either Jazz or
perhaps something in the Gunther Schuller line. The advent of "free
improvisation" made criticism of everything that fell under the term
improvisation less tenable, but does not invalidate the critique itself.
Daniel Wolf
Frankfurt-am-Main
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------------------------------
Date: 05 Feb 2000 09:11:19 EST
From: Charles.E.Hamm@Dartmouth.EDU (Charles E. Hamm)
Subject: [silence] Cage and "improvisation"
I just came across a letter from John Cage, written to me in 1973 when I was
compiling a list of his compositions for my article in the New Grove's
Dictionary of Music and Musicians and had been discussing with him whether or
not certain of his "compositions" should be included. He says of MUSICIRCUS,
which had recently been done at the University of Illinois: "It is doubtful
whether my work in connection with that piece is as integral a part of it as the
work of all the actual performers of it. The same is true of REUNION. . . .
VARIATIONS 7 & 8 I am still doubtful about."
I mention this because from time to time members of this list have quoted
Cage's remark "permission granted, but not to do whatever you choose." OK, but
what can get lost is the historical fact that Cage's thinking and techniques
were not monolithic throughout his life and career, and there was a period in
the '60s and early '70s when the relationships among Cage the composer, a
"composition" of his, the score for that piece, and its performance were not the
same as they had been earlier and would be later. Gordon Mumma and Jim Tenney,
among others, have plenty of stories about how they would often simply "wing
it" during performances, and how Cage would sometimes do the same himself. It
would seem that during this period the operative phrase was "permission granted
to do whatever you choose, within a certain time frame." The question remaining
is whether or not this permission was granted only to members of Cage's
performing circle, or to others as well.
Charles Hamm
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 10:20:44 -0500
From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal
At 12:51 PM 2/3/00 -0500, Glenn Freeman wrote:
>That strikes ALL of Cage's "number pieces"...right? I would also go as far
as to
>suggest it also strikes a complete performance of the Freeman Etudes. Is there
>musical discrimination/ignorance going on here? If so, Cage might have been
upset
>by this discrimination...
>
This seems an odd response, for a number of reasons:
Any concert promoter is looking for a particular area, and defines that area
using any number of criteria. Supposing Larry had said, "preferrably no pop
music" or "no drums'n'bass"?
I know the word "minimalism" has been abused, most notably in the NYTimes
Cage obit 8 years ago. Historically, it is a useful word only if it refers
to repetetive, mostly tonal music coming from the group around and
influenced by Young, Glass, Riley etc. This could be stretched to include
Lucier's work, but already the word is becoming less useful. (Kind of like
calling Creedence Clearwater Revival "country-western". Sure, the influence
is there, but not in common understanding.) If you start talking about
Feldman and Ligeti, then you should include Harry Partch. And how 'bout
Webern - he uses forms of the same row over and over again, and frequently
has a sparse texture. By any stretch, I can't see including the Freeman
etudes, unless you're talking solely about length, in which case Mahler is
also minimalist...
Finally, don't we have enough forums for whatever Minimalism passes itself
off as these days (Bang on a Can, for example)? Non-repetetive/tonal/trance
music is hard enough to come by in Boston, let alone (I imagine) in Tuscon,
and it's even harder to get a gig playing the stuff ...
- --steve
http://www.stephendrury.com
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 11:02:57 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal
At 10:20 AM 2/5/00 -0500, stephen drury wrote:
>
>I know the word "minimalism" has been abused, most notably in the NYTimes
>Cage obit 8 years ago. Historically, it is a useful word only if it refers
>to repetetive, mostly tonal music coming from the group around and
>influenced by Young, Glass, Riley etc. This could be stretched to include
>Lucier's work, but already the word is becoming less useful. (Kind of like
>calling Creedence Clearwater Revival "country-western". Sure, the influence
>is there, but not in common understanding.) If you start talking about
>Feldman and Ligeti, then you should include Harry Partch. And how 'bout
>Webern - he uses forms of the same row over and over again, and frequently
>has a sparse texture.
Speaking of Webern the minimalist, did anyone else find the phrase
'Webern-Stockhausen-La Monte Young trajectory [which] carries us deep into
the heart of the single note' in the February Wire (in a review of Sheila
Chandra's new album, no less) to be a bit of a stretch? I was previously
unaware of trajectories that went from Stockhausen to Young (although
perhaps Stimmung is independently related to some common issues). In any
event, I am pleased to know that Webern is not only a minimalist, but a
drone artist as well.
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
It is pretty obvious that the debasement of the human mind caused by a
constant flow of fraudulent advertising is no trivial thing. There is more
than one way to conquer a country.
- -- Raymond Chandler
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:22:12 +0100
From: "Daniel Wolf" <djwolf@snafu.de>
Subject: Re: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal
For La Monte Young and many others in the Bay area scene (Reich, Riley,
Oliveros, Leedy), Webern's assigned of particular pitches to fixed registers
created a static background element in the music.
The connection between Young and Stockhausen is more complex. While Young
was in Stockhausen's seminar at Darmstadt, Young, having already composed
the _Trio for strings_, _for brass_ and two (almost three) piano _Studies_
was already disinclined to taking on a student relationship with
Stockhausen. On the other hand, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that
Stockhausen's _Stimmung_ was composed in response to visiting Young and
Zazeela's loft and hearing recordings by the Theatre of Eternal Music.
(Similarly, the tuning used in Stockhausen's _Sternklang_ is indebted to the
tonality diamond of Harry Partch, whom Stockhausen met during his guest
professorship in Davis).
Daniel Wolf
- ----- > Speaking of Webern the minimalist, did anyone else find the phrase
> 'Webern-Stockhausen-La Monte Young trajectory [which] carries us deep into
> the heart of the single note' in the February Wire (in a review of Sheila
> Chandra's new album, no less) to be a bit of a stretch? I was previously
> unaware of trajectories that went from Stockhausen to Young (although
> perhaps Stimmung is independently related to some common issues). In any
> event, I am pleased to know that Webern is not only a minimalist, but a
> drone artist as well.
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------------------------------
End of silence-digest V1 #311
*****************************
From jzitt Sat Mar 10 14:40:56 2001
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Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 14:39:56 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hampus_Holm=E9n?= <umpe.korn@telia.com>
Cc: silence@metatronpress.com
Subject: Re: [silence] John Cage
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On Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 07:19:17PM +0100, Hampus HolmΘn wrote:
> I┤m doing a research on John Cage.
> Specially on his purpose with his music.
> What is your opinion bout his work? Did he have a meaning with it?
A ggod place to start to find the opinions of the members of this list
(in addition to whatever anyone might want to add now) would be the
list archives at http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/
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|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
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From jzitt Sun Mar 11 08:21:04 2001
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From: Tim Ovens <mail@timovens.de>
To: Silence List <silence@metatronpress.com>
Subject: [silence] electronic music for piano
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:25:30 +0100
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Hi all,
I am working on a catalogue of Cages works which will be a part of a CD-ROM
about Cage, mainly about the Sonatas & Interludes.
In Larry Salamons list there is
1965: Electronic Music for Piano. piano and electronics; uses material
from Music for Piano 4-84
and also
1962: Music for Piano 85. piano & live electronics.
Is this possibly the same work. Does anyone know?
Let me please also announce a CD, released in 1999:
John Cage, "Jede Menge Klavier" (gutingi 506)
It is a recording of a live concert: Works from Cage for one to five pianos
The pianists: Darlen Bakke, Martin Doerrie, Bernd Goetzke, Christoph Keymer
, Tim Ovens , Tatjana Prelevic , Gerrit Zitterbart
1. Music For Marcel Duchamp
2. Experiences: Nr. 1 Duo f. 2 pianos
3. Two Pieces (1935/1974)
4. Etudes australes: Nr. 1
5. Mysterious Adventure
6. In A Landscape
7. Music For Amplified Toy Pianos
8. Music Of Changes: Book 3
9. Dream
10. The Perilous Night (4 movements)
11. Water Music: 14.10.99
12. Five (played on five pianos)
13. 0:00 (performed by Darlen Bakke , Martin D÷rrie , Bernd Goetzke ,
Christoph Keymer , Tim Ovens , Tatjana Prelevic , Gerrit Zitterbart)
Tim
__________________________________________________
Tim Ovens
Pianist
Hochschule fuer Musik und Theater Hannover
e-mail: mail@timovens.de
website: www.timovens.de
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From jzitt Sun Mar 11 14:39:20 2001
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Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 14:37:12 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
To: Tim Ovens <mail@timovens.de>
Cc: Silence List <silence@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] electronic music for piano
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On Sun, Mar 11, 2001 at 03:25:30PM +0100, Tim Ovens wrote:
> Let me please also announce a CD, released in 1999:
> John Cage, "Jede Menge Klavier" (gutingi 506)
> It is a recording of a live concert: Works from Cage for one to five pianos
> The pianists: Darlen Bakke, Martin Doerrie, Bernd Goetzke, Christoph Keymer
> , Tim Ovens , Tatjana Prelevic , Gerrit Zitterbart
How can we order this CD? Is it available from any online CD shops?
--
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
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From mail@timovens.de Sun Mar 11 16:28:40 2001
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From: Tim Ovens <mail@timovens.de>
To: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
References: <000901c0aa37$39262be0$23f94b82@oemcomputer> <20010311143712.L19411@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] electronic music for piano
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 23:33:12 +0100
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> On Sun, Mar 11, 2001 at 03:25:30PM +0100, Tim Ovens wrote:
>
> > Let me please also announce a CD, released in 1999:
> > John Cage, "Jede Menge Klavier" (gutingi 506)
> > It is a recording of a live concert: Works from Cage for one to five
pianos
> > The pianists: Darlen Bakke, Martin Doerrie, Bernd Goetzke, Christoph
Keymer
> > , Tim Ovens , Tatjana Prelevic , Gerrit Zitterbart
>
> How can we order this CD? Is it available from any online CD shops?
You can order at amazon.de (with very expensive shipping), at amazon.com I
didnt't find it. Others I didn't look for.
You also can order on my website or directly from me. Then the CD costs US$
20 incl. shipping.
__________________________________________________
Tim Ovens
Pianist
Hochschule fuer Musik und Theater Hannover
e-mail: mail@timovens.de
website: www.timovens.de
From jzitt Mon Mar 12 18:14:50 2001
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:10:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] Aleatoric earthquake art
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http://www.gaelwolf.com/pendulum.html
--
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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 06:03:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] Cage chess games and Song Books in Rochester on March 30
To: "SilenceáList" <silence@metatronpress.com>
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Sorry if this question has been asked and answered before,
but I'm in a rush this morning and I haven't got the time
to search the Silence archives:
I'd love to get a copy of any chess games that Cage
played--e-mail would be my preferred mode of receipt.
And on Friday, March 30, at 8 p.m., the all-student-run
new music group at Eastman, Ossia, will present a
staged, evening-length performance of Cage's _Song
Books_, directed by Nigel Maister of the University
of Rochester Theatre Program to an original concept
by me and Elizabeth Wells. I hope that my brief
program notes will be up and running on the Ossia
website <www.esm.rochester.edu/Ossia> soon. We
have a cast of 18 or so and will include recordings
of _Indeterminacy_ (recorded by me and digitally
altered by Jason Price), Aria, and the Solos for
Violin and Cello from the _Concert for Piano
and Orchestra_.
Rob
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
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From jzitt Wed Mar 14 18:39:36 2001
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From: owner-silence-digest@metatronpress.com (silence-digest)
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Subject: silence-digest V1 #340
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silence-digest Wednesday, March 14 2001 Volume 01 : Number 340
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:00:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Andy Dancer <ubuweb@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] Cage, La Barbara + Joey Ramone
Speaking of the Cage / Wyatt / Bley disc:
A few weeks ago, Joan La Barbara, Margaret Leng Tan
and the Flux Quartet were on my WFMU show doing stuff
from the then upcoming Carnegie Hall series. I pulled
out the Obscure disc on the air for Joan; she was very
eager to hear the Bley "forever and sunsmell" cut. So
I played it and she listened closely and ended up
thinking that it wasn't great; evidently Bley didn't
jump an octave where she was supposed to. To remedy
this, I played Joey Ramone's version of "The Wonderful
Widow of Eighteen Springs" from the Caged / Uncaged
disc and she lit up! She thought that Joey Ramone did
an accurate and careful reading of Cage's work. Go
figure!
You can hear all of the above and the entire live 3
hour show on WFMU's RealAudio archive:
http://archive.wfmu.org/archive/KG/kg010208.ram
- --Kenny G / WFMU
PS: Has anyone heard Ampersand's reissue of "Empty
Words (Parte III)? It's wild. The dynamic between Cage
and the restless crowd makes for some of the most
exciting stuff I've heard in a long time. Oh my god...
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:06:45 +0000
From: Stuart Riddle <stuart.riddle@virgin.net>
Subject: [silence] FW: Cambridge Companion To John Cage
- ----------
From: Stuart Riddle <stuart.riddle@virgin.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:10:53 +0000
To: <silence@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Cambridge Companion To John Cage
I have just received a mailing from Cambridge University Press. Under
forthcoming titles they list:
The Cambridge Companion To John Cage
Edited by David Nicholls
0 521 78348 8 HB
0 521 78968 0 PB
Does anyone have any further news on this?
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:37:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] FW: Cambridge Companion To John Cage
The Cambridge Composer Companions generally
offer a series of essays by a number scholars
doing research on a particular composer.
The essays typically cover the usual "life and
works" combo. Our own Chris Shultis is writing
one of the chapters; I imagine James Pritchett
will contribute something as well. I hope that
the book will give a wonderful summary of
the state of Cage research--if it's anything like
the one on Bach that came out a few years
ago, it will be a valuable reference tool for
some time to come.
Rob
- --- Stuart Riddle <stuart.riddle@virgin.net> wrote:
>
> ----------
> From: Stuart Riddle <stuart.riddle@virgin.net>
> Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:10:53 +0000
> To: <silence@metatronpress.com>
> Subject: Cambridge Companion To John Cage
>
> I have just received a mailing from Cambridge University Press. Under
> forthcoming titles they list:
>
> The Cambridge Companion To John Cage
> Edited by David Nicholls
> 0 521 78348 8 HB
> 0 521 78968 0 PB
>
> Does anyone have any further news on this?
>
> -
> [Searchable Silence archives:
> http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]
> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc:
> http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]
> [ or email majordomo@metatronpress.com with the text "info
> silence" ]
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:53:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Andy Dancer <ubuweb@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage, La Barbara + Joey Ramone
- --- Lbatlibrary@aol.com wrote:
> I don't know about that Joey Ramone cut. Can someone
> enlighten me?
The Ramone cut is off _Caged / Uncaged_ on a Cramps
CD. It was prepared for the 1993 Venice Biennale and
was co-produced by NYC's PS 1.
Joey Ramone: Vocals
Don Yallach Percussion
Joe McGinty: MIDI Programming
Produced by John Cale
It's a very, very straight, serious and sober
interpretation of "The Wonderful Widow..." and I'm
sure that's why Joan respected it more than she did
the Bley, which if I'm not mistaken, Joan felt she had
taken some liberties with...
The Caged / Uncaged disc is an experimental rock
tribute disc featuring David Byrne, Debbie Harry, Arto
Lindsay, Ars Hell and Mutt, Zorn, Chris Stein, Amy
Denio, David Weinstein / Shelley Hirsch, Ann Magnuson
/ John Cale, Jello Biafra / Eugene Chadbourne, Lou
Reed, Eliott Sharp, Joey Ramone and, of course, John Cage.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:56:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Andy Dancer <ubuweb@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] More on Joey Ramone
>From the liner notes:
Joey, Ramone, lead singer of the legendary rock group
the Ramones, chose to record a Cage composition
entitled "The Wonderful Widow of Eighteen Springs", on
a text from James Joyce's Finnegans Wake. Written in
1942, the piece was originally scored for contralto
voice and prepared piano, with the piano lid closed
and the written notes A, B, C, and D representing four
different places for the piano to be struck as a
percussion instrument. Joey Ramone's rendition, which
features Don Yallach and Joe McGinty of the
Psychedelic Furs on percussion and MIDI programming
respectively, was produced by John Cale at his own
studio, and again engineered by Miles Green. Although
MIDI drum pads were used instead of the piano, and the
vocal part was transposed firom a contralto to Joey
Ramones baritone, the integrity of the original
composition is intact, and it imparts an unmistaken
Queens "rock and roll" feel to the Joycean lyrics.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:18:36 -0800 (PST)
From: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage panel in SF + RealMedia webcast
Hi everyone,
We're still on for the webcast of the panel tomorrow night, though we
haven't yet had a chance to do a tech check in the auditorium. Again,
the event will begin at 7:30pm Pacific Time, and there's a currently
inactive link from the page at
http://63.197.251.104/
It'll probably go live around 7 or so, and you can watch the stage
preparations if you're so inclined.
Thanks, Eric
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:21:23 -0800 (PST)
From: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] 4'33 and Radio Music
Robert F. Jones writes:
> I've done Radio Music many times with college students (it's actually a bit
> more challenging to play than it seems at first). In recent years I find
> that it's getting harder to find AM radios.
Radio Music is on the program here in San Francisco tomorrow night, and
there has been some trouble tracking down AM radios with dial tuners.
I'm bringing two Panasonic clock radios that fit the bill. Still not
that warm tube sound, but it's the best we can do without hitting the
thrift/antique stores.
- --Eric
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 20:56:36 -0600
From: "Twine sound" <twine_sound@hotmail.com>
Subject: [silence] Twine sight has been updated and moved:
the new link is:
http://www.four09.org/twine
Please update links.
Thanks,
Chad Mossholder
Twine/Twinesound Audio Productions
ùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùù.
http://www.personal.kent.edu/~mmercer/twine
http://www.heftyrecords.com
twinesound@hotmail.com
.ùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùù
- --"The original is unfaithful to the copy." Jorge Luis Borges
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:23:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Andy Dancer <ubuweb@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] U B U W E B :: New Resources Winter 2001
UbuWeb Visual, Concrete + Sound Poetry
http://www.ubu.com
U B U W E B :: N E W__R E S O U R C E S :: W I N T E
R__2001
---HISTORICAL---
Ian Hamilton Finlay - Wild Hawthorn Press, 1960s
---CONTEMPORARY---
Julien d'Abrigeon - Shockwave Visual Sound Poem
Guerilla Poetry - Shockwave Poetry
Neil Hennessy - 2 New Java Applets
Lucas Mulder - random buttons (javascript poetry)
William Poundstone - 3 Shockwave Poems
Brian Kim Stefans - The Dreamlife of Letters
Fernando Strano - Flash Poetry
Ana Maria Uribe - 3 Animations
---SOUND---
Vito Acconci - Ten Packed Minutes
Antonin Artaud - Pour en finir avec le jugement de
dieu (1947)
Hugo Ball - 6 Sound Poems from 1916
Giacomo Balla - 3 Sound Poems from 1914
William S. Burroughs - Break Through in the Grey Room
(1960s)
Francis E. Dec - 5 Rants
Marcel Duchamp - Lecutres, Interviews + Spoken Texts
Paul Dutton - Mouthpieces
Kipper Kids - Sheik of Araby
Paul McCarthy - Boston Bay
Gregory Whitehead - Blackhumour / Dead Languages
COMING SOON: In collaboration with the Electronic
Poetry Center, University of Buffalo: Historical MP3
Sound Poetry Archive (to be launched Spring 2001)
---PAPERS---
Kevin Concannon -- "Cut + Paste: Collage and the Art
of Sound"
Dick Higgins - A Short History of Pattern Poetry
Daniele Lombardi -- "Futurism and Musical Notes"
Clark Lunberry -- "Broken English: Deviant Language
and the Para-Poetic"
F.T. Marinetti -- "Geometric Mechanical Splendor + the
Numeric Sensibility"
Gil McElroy -- "Ground States: The Visual Contexts of
bpNichol"
UbuWeb Visual, Concrete + Sound Poetry
http://www.ubu.com
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 22:45:04 +0000
From: Dominic Rivron <karen.rivron@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [silence] 4'33 and Radio Music
Eric S. Theise wrote:
>
> Robert F. Jones writes:
> > I've done Radio Music many times with college students (it's actually a bit
> > more challenging to play than it seems at first). In recent years I find
> > that it's getting harder to find AM radios.
One could always go to
http://www.midnightscience.com/
ie, the Crystal Radio Society, and build your own. A crystal set would
need amplifying (you'd need to calibrate the dial too, and it wouldn't
be very selective). BUT they do advertise a simple one-tube regenerative
receiver kit, which **might** be really good.
More on crystal radios (and even how to make them out of rusty razor
blades) at
http://freeweb.pdq.net/headstrong/crystal.htm
They do mention
Antique Electronics Supply, 6221 S. Maple, Tempe, AZ
85283-2856 USA (phone 602-820-5411)
I know nothing about them, but it got me thinking of past requests on
the list re old mike inserts, etc. It depends what you (and they) call
antique.
Dominic
- --
http://dominic.rivron.tripod.com
http://www.thehungersite.com
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 19:29:36 -0000
From: "Clemens Gresser" <cgresser@gmx.net>
Subject: [silence] Re: Cambridge Companion To John Cage
Just to add some more info:
Contributors of the forthcoming Cambridge Companion To John
Cage include David Bernstein, William Brooks, Kathan Brown, Kyle
Gann, David Patterson, Leta Miller, David Nicholls, Christopher
Shultis and Mark Swed.
Regards,
Clemens Gresser
cgresser@gmx.net
http://www.crosswinds.net/~cgresser
P.S. Der Mailserver von GMX.NET "verliert" von Zeit zu Zeit E-Mails.
Sollte ich auf eine Mail (lΣngere Zeit) nicht antworten, wΣre ich dankbar,
wenn Sie/Du mir diese nochmal zusenden wⁿrden/wⁿrdest. Danke!
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Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:08:26 -0500 (EST)
From: <kos@iota.onepine.com>
Subject: [silence] Availability of Chess Piece
Hi gang,
Where can one obtain "Chess Piece," the film made of John Cage and
Teeny Duchamp's chess game? (I believe the date is 1986.)
I know Joseph Zitt mentioned in previous posts that it was available as
part of the Rolyholyover event in Los Angeles, but that's history now.
Anyone know it's current distributor/availability status?
Bob Kosovsky -- Librarian
Music Division, The New York Public Library for the Performing Arts
kos@iota.onepine.com bkosovsky@nypl.org
Listowner: OPERA-L@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU ; smt-list@smt.ucsb.edu
Administrivia to: rjkgc@cunyvm.cuny.edu
- ------My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions-------
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Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:37:51 -0500
From: David P Miller <dpmiller@world.std.com>
Subject: [silence] Niki de Saint Phalle/Variations
Hi everyone -- I was recently reading through an exhibition catalogue for
works of Niki de Saint Phalle. It was mentioned in the catalog that she
performed in "Variations by John Cage, given at the American Embassy, 20
June [1961], with Jasper Johns, Robert Rauschenberg, Jean Tinguely, and
David Tudor."
Does anyone have any information (or memories) of this concert, or perhaps
have a lead on a source for more information? I'm interested in chasing
down as much about different "Variations" performances as I can find.
Thanks!
David
dpmiller@world.std.com
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Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:25:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Lama Kunga Gyaltsen <lotsawa@speakeasy.org>
Subject: Re: [silence] Availability of Chess Piece
I don't know. However, if anybody wants a copy of my chess match with John Cage
at UC-Davis in 1969, I would be happy to put it up online and send it to anybody
that requests it. One game only. John Cage-White / Storrs Barrett
Booch-Williams, Black. Result: SBB-W 1, JC 0, in a 21-move crusher. For which I
went around for a couple of years with a swelled head saying to myself "After
all, what is there for a young [then] Avant Garde composer to do, who has bested
the Dean of the Avant Garde in a Game of Chess? I do know who Won that battle,
which took place in Cage's UC-Davis office, but I have always said that I'm not
sure who Won the War? We got close several other times, at the Cabrillo Festival
(1978 I think) and in Correspondence (1990-91) to play some more, but
"composed" instead [I Ching compositions at the Cabrillo Festival, along with
Composer-Musician John William Mallot [OM'aLot] and NY-Seattle correspondence
after that. Anybody interested in a copy of the game -- which of course I have
preserved [on Chicago Chess Club form] for posterity?
Storrs Barrett Booch-Williams
aka, Lama Kunga Gyaltsen
**************************************************************
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On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, kos@iota.onepine.com wrote:
> Hi gang,
>
> Where can one obtain "Chess Piece," the film made of John Cage and
> Teeny Duchamp's chess game? (I believe the date is 1986.)
>
> I know Joseph Zitt mentioned in previous posts that it was available as
> part of the Rolyholyover event in Los Angeles, but that's history now.
>
> Anyone know it's current distributor/availability status?
>
> Bob Kosovsky -- Librarian
> Music Division, The New York Public Library for the Performing Arts
> kos@iota.onepine.com bkosovsky@nypl.org
> Listowner: OPERA-L@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU ; smt-list@smt.ucsb.edu
> Administrivia to: rjkgc@cunyvm.cuny.edu
> ------My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions-------
>
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>
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Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:44:08 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Availability of Chess Piece
On Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 12:25:09PM -0800, Lama Kunga Gyaltsen wrote:
> I don't know. However, if anybody wants a copy of my chess match with John Cage
> at UC-Davis in 1969, I would be happy to put it up online and send it to anybody
> that requests it.
If you put it online, I'll gladly link to it from the Silence page. I
don't know that anyone's done a philosophical analysis of Cage's chess
practices, but once enough data is accumulated, it would probably be
inevitable :-)
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|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 06:30:00 -0600
From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>
Subject: [silence] Lou Harrison in RealAudio
Hi y'all,
This week on Mappings <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/>,
you'll hear music by Lou Harrison, including his work's Rhymes with
Silver, Piano Concerto, Varied Trio, Gending Alexander, Concerto in
slendro, 5th Simfony, The Perilous Chapel, Fugue, and Bubaran Robert.
The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0800 GMT) and
will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program,
featuring music by Eve Beglarian, Kitty Brazleton, Emidio Buchinho,
Eugene Chadbourne, Elizabeth Falconer, Jonathan Harvey, Frank Lowe,
Denman Maroney & Hans Tammen, Elizabeth Panzer, Poul Ruders, Tadao
Sawai, and Chas Smith is still available in the Mappings archive
<http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index1.htm>, where you
can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998.
Hope you tune in to the program.
Bests,
Herb
- --
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P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147
817 377-2983
herb@eskimo.com
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:16:09 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Chaudron?= <chaudron@worldonline.nl>
Subject: [silence] Pianoworks Vol.6
This week Vol.6 of the Pianoworks was released in Europe. It looks like
another interesting CD entitled Works 1960-1992, including One, One2 (first
recording), One5, ASLSP, Etudes Boreales and The Beatles 1962-1970 (first
recording).
I am very curious, ordered it from my shop but didn't get it yet.
Steffen Schleiermacher is an extremely good pianist and his series are worth
exploring! Take a look at his site as well:
http://www.schleiermacher-leipzig.de/
Three more volumes are planned:
vol 7 Pieces 1933-1950 (erscheint im Juli)
Soliloquy (1945) 3 min
Ophelia (1946) 6 min
The Season (1947) 15 min
Two Pieces for Piano (1935) 5 min
Jazz Study (1942) 3 min
Metamorphosis (1938) 15 min
Quest (1935) 2 min
Three Early Pieces (1933) 4 min
A Room (1943) 2 min
Crete & Dad (1945) 2 min
Two Pieces for Piano (1946) 6 min
Ad Lib. (1943) 4 min
Tripel-paced (1944) 3 min
vol 8 Hommage α Satie erscheint im September
Perpetual Tango (1984)
In a Landscape (1948) 9 min
Perpetual Tango (1984)
Suite for Toy Piano (version for piano) (1948) 8 min
Perpetual Tango (1984)
Cheap Imitation (1969)
Perpetual Tango (1984)
Dream (1948) 6 min
Perpetual Tango (1984)
Swinging (1989)
Perpetual Tango (1984)
Vol 9 (3 CD) Etudes Australis (erscheint Februar 2002)
I wonder what happened to a piece like 'Furniture Music Etcetera'. (might be
included in 'Hommage a Satie' I guess). According to the Mr.Schleiermacher
this work is not written for piano. Does anyone have more information about
this work?
I also miss 'Chess Pieces' (is this written for the piano?), 'Encounter'
(how fragmentary is this work?) and 'Orestes'. Does anyone have a clue why
they should not be included in the 'Complete Music for Piano'?
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:55:41 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Pianoworks Vol.6
On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 08:16:09PM +0100, AndrΘ Chaudron wrote:
> This week Vol.6 of the Pianoworks was released in Europe. It looks like
> another interesting CD entitled Works 1960-1992, including One, One2 (first
> recording), One5, ASLSP, Etudes Boreales and The Beatles 1962-1970 (first
> recording).
A first recording? Isn't this the piece that Aki Takahashi (?) recorded
years ago?
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:58:37 -0600
From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Pianoworks Vol.6
>This week Vol.6 of the Pianoworks was released in Europe. It looks like
>another interesting CD entitled Works 1960-1992, including One, One2 (first
>recording), One5, ASLSP, Etudes Boreales and The Beatles 1962-1970 (first
>recording).
Dear Andre,
Thanks for the news, it looks like they're going to get through the
rest of the series rather quickly.
For what it's worth, the Beatles 1962-1970 is NOT a first recording:
Aki Takahashi, who commissioned it (along with arrangements of other
music by the Beatles by 40-50 composers) recorded it on a CD entitled
Hyper-Beatles. EMI put it out, but it is no longer in print.
Bests,
Herb
- --
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P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147
817 377-2983
herb@eskimo.com
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 22:19:17 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Chaudron?= <chaudron@worldonline.nl>
Subject: [silence] first recordings
Sorry for the wrong 'first recordings'. I thought it was the first release
on CD. My mistake.
Andre Chaudron
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Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 18:43:04 -0500
From: Mode Records <mode@mode.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] Pianoworks Vol.6
Indeed, Aki Takahashi did record this as part of her HYPER-BEATLES series.
Brian Brandt
mode records
Joseph Zitt wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 08:16:09PM +0100, AndrΘ Chaudron wrote:
> > This week Vol.6 of the Pianoworks was released in Europe. It looks like
> > another interesting CD entitled Works 1960-1992, including One, One2 (first
> > recording), One5, ASLSP, Etudes Boreales and The Beatles 1962-1970 (first
> > recording).
>
> A first recording? Isn't this the piece that Aki Takahashi (?) recorded
> years ago?
>
> --
> |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
> | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
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> | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
>
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 19:19:17 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hampus_Holm=E9n?= <umpe.korn@telia.com>
Subject: [silence] John Cage
I┤m doing a research on John Cage.
Specially on his purpose with his music.
What is your opinion bout his work? Did he have a meaning with it?
/Hampus
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Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 14:39:56 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] John Cage
On Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 07:19:17PM +0100, Hampus HolmΘn wrote:
> I┤m doing a research on John Cage.
> Specially on his purpose with his music.
> What is your opinion bout his work? Did he have a meaning with it?
A ggod place to start to find the opinions of the members of this list
(in addition to whatever anyone might want to add now) would be the
list archives at http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:25:30 +0100
From: Tim Ovens <mail@timovens.de>
Subject: [silence] electronic music for piano
Hi all,
I am working on a catalogue of Cages works which will be a part of a CD-ROM
about Cage, mainly about the Sonatas & Interludes.
In Larry Salamons list there is
1965: Electronic Music for Piano. piano and electronics; uses material
from Music for Piano 4-84
and also
1962: Music for Piano 85. piano & live electronics.
Is this possibly the same work. Does anyone know?
Let me please also announce a CD, released in 1999:
John Cage, "Jede Menge Klavier" (gutingi 506)
It is a recording of a live concert: Works from Cage for one to five pianos
The pianists: Darlen Bakke, Martin Doerrie, Bernd Goetzke, Christoph Keymer
, Tim Ovens , Tatjana Prelevic , Gerrit Zitterbart
1. Music For Marcel Duchamp
2. Experiences: Nr. 1 Duo f. 2 pianos
3. Two Pieces (1935/1974)
4. Etudes australes: Nr. 1
5. Mysterious Adventure
6. In A Landscape
7. Music For Amplified Toy Pianos
8. Music Of Changes: Book 3
9. Dream
10. The Perilous Night (4 movements)
11. Water Music: 14.10.99
12. Five (played on five pianos)
13. 0:00 (performed by Darlen Bakke , Martin D÷rrie , Bernd Goetzke ,
Christoph Keymer , Tim Ovens , Tatjana Prelevic , Gerrit Zitterbart)
Tim
__________________________________________________
Tim Ovens
Pianist
Hochschule fuer Musik und Theater Hannover
e-mail: mail@timovens.de
website: www.timovens.de
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 14:37:12 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: [silence] electronic music for piano
On Sun, Mar 11, 2001 at 03:25:30PM +0100, Tim Ovens wrote:
> Let me please also announce a CD, released in 1999:
> John Cage, "Jede Menge Klavier" (gutingi 506)
> It is a recording of a live concert: Works from Cage for one to five pianos
> The pianists: Darlen Bakke, Martin Doerrie, Bernd Goetzke, Christoph Keymer
> , Tim Ovens , Tatjana Prelevic , Gerrit Zitterbart
How can we order this CD? Is it available from any online CD shops?
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:10:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] Aleatoric earthquake art
http://www.gaelwolf.com/pendulum.html
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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 06:03:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] Cage chess games and Song Books in Rochester on March 30
Sorry if this question has been asked and answered before,
but I'm in a rush this morning and I haven't got the time
to search the Silence archives:
I'd love to get a copy of any chess games that Cage
played--e-mail would be my preferred mode of receipt.
And on Friday, March 30, at 8 p.m., the all-student-run
new music group at Eastman, Ossia, will present a
staged, evening-length performance of Cage's _Song
Books_, directed by Nigel Maister of the University
of Rochester Theatre Program to an original concept
by me and Elizabeth Wells. I hope that my brief
program notes will be up and running on the Ossia
website <www.esm.rochester.edu/Ossia> soon. We
have a cast of 18 or so and will include recordings
of _Indeterminacy_ (recorded by me and digitally
altered by Jason Price), Aria, and the Solos for
Violin and Cello from the _Concert for Piano
and Orchestra_.
Rob
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
__________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:25:13 -0500
From: Louis Goldstein <louieg@wfu.edu>
Subject: Re: [silence] Cage chess games and Song Books in Rochester on March 30
Rob Haskins wrote:
> new music group at Eastman, Ossia, will present a
> staged, evening-length performance of Cage's _Song
> Books_, directed by Nigel Maister of the University
> of Rochester Theatre Program to an original concept
> by me and Elizabeth Wells.
What a great idea!! Wish I could be there!
Louie
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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:56:51 +0100
From: Tim Ovens <mail@timovens.de>
Subject: Re: [silence] electronic music for piano
> On Sun, Mar 11, 2001 at 03:25:30PM +0100, Tim Ovens wrote:
>
> > Let me please also announce a CD, released in 1999:
> > John Cage, "Jede Menge Klavier" (gutingi 506)
> > It is a recording of a live concert: Works from Cage for one to five
pianos
> > The pianists: Darlen Bakke, Martin Doerrie, Bernd Goetzke, Christoph
Keymer
> > , Tim Ovens , Tatjana Prelevic , Gerrit Zitterbart
>
> How can we order this CD? Is it available from any online CD shops?
You can order at amazon.de (with very expensive shipping), at amazon.com I
didnt't find it. Others I didn't look for.
You also can order on my website or directly from me. Then the CD costs US$
20 incl. shipping.
__________________________________________________
Tim Ovens
Pianist
Hochschule fuer Musik und Theater Hannover
e-mail: mail@timovens.de
website: www.timovens.de
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:32:42 -0600
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>
Subject: [silence] Monday, March 19 at Myopic: Ambient Improvisational
Friends,
This coming Monday, March 19, I'll be hosting an "Ambient
Improvisational" event at the Myopic Improv Workshop in Chicago, IL.
This will include myself - Matthew Ross Davis (a.k.a. Craque) -
laying down a groundwork of electronic sonic texture; a continuity of
sound, a layer of ambience to the wonderful creaking floor above us
and the L wooshing by!
The soloists will be whomever wants to join. Consider this an
impromptu call for participants: carry your instrument of choice and
glide in and out of the textures as you feel so inspired. It will be
part musicircus, part workshop, part sonic social club.
Here's the info...
Ambient Improvisational feat. Craque
Monday, March 19, 7:30PM
Myopic Books
1468 N. Milwaukee, Chicago, IL
773/862-4882
Admission is free
- --
=== === === ===
Matthew Ross Davis
http://mp3.com/craque
http://metatronpress.com
=== === === === === === ===
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End of silence-digest V1 #340
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:47:51 -0500 (EST)
From: James Pritchett <jfwp@earthlink.net>
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To: silence list <silence@metatronpress.com>
Subject: [silence] Niki de Saint-Phalle Variations II
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Regarding that performance of Variations II with Rauschenberg, Tudor,
Johns, etc. -- I remember reading about that one somewhere, but don't
recall the reference offhand. It might have been one of Calvin Tomkins'
books.
I do know that Tudor's realization here was not the same as his amplified
piano realization of 1961 (the one from that great Columbia recording).
It involved a lot of theatrics and props. There are materials relating to
it in the Tudor collection at the Getty Research Institute.
James Pritchett
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From jzitt Mon Mar 19 10:22:12 2001
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Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 08:18:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Handley <thesubtlebody@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] cage-related article in OCTOBER
To: Silence List <silence@metatronpress.com>
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Sorry if this is common knowledge or already
mentioned, but I ran across the following article in
Issue 95 of OCTOBER, an MIT Press theory/crit journal:
Liz Kotz, "Post-Cagean Aesthetics and the Event
Score". (I have not read it yet, so cannot comment,
sorry.) I read another article in a recent issue
(Autumn 2000, Vol. 27, No. 1) of the journal CRITICAL
INQUIRY, published by the University of Chicago Press:
Brandon Joseph, "White on White". It's an interesting
if not particularly probing alignment of Cage and
Rauschenberg. Excerpts can be read at:
http://www.uchicago.edu/research/jnl-crit-inq/27.1/27.1.joseph.html
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From jzitt Mon Mar 19 13:03:41 2001
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From: "Lowther, John" <JLowther@facstaff.oglethorpe.edu>
To: s i l e n c e <silence@metatronpress.com>
Subject: RE: [silence] cage-related ( )
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:54:53 -0500
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RE
article in
a recent issue
Autumn 2000, Vol. 27, No. 1) of the journ
al CRITIC
AL INQUIRY, Br
a n d o n J o s e p h
"White on White".
"interesting if not particularly probing alignment."
http://www.uchicago.edu/research/jnl-crit-inq/27.1/27.1.joseph.html
<http://www.uchicago.edu/research/jnl-crit-inq/27.1/27.1.joseph.html>
i thought this was really pretty flat
and i hope
that far too much is being said when Br
andon suggests clement greenberg reducing to the necessities blah
necessities rule out too much the point (whatever it may be)
of 4'33" is surely not "this is a composition reduced to necessities;
duration an audience an instrument" as much as the piece
may be implicated by that description
or maybe i
just like cage's
later realization that 4'33" didn't need to be delimited in time
even still going on inattention as the only non-art
experience
(but maybe not if it is experienced)
i don't know for
rauschenberg
but for me 4'33" is about the music
but think about how rauschenberg
moved for a
time there black then white had red preceeded or
did it follow i can't remember but then he explodes exp
ands and takes the world in
that's more what 4'33" seems to be
doing for music
a question that someone (not me)
might be able to answer is whether corrollary moments
are identifiable in other media... if white paintings and
4'33" are linkable in that way... black paintings also
right those came before... one cd talk about duchamp
surely but what about dance (merce but otherwise)
and what of sculpture architecture theater literature
(or as i wd prefer "poetry")
other genres find the corollary in different ways i'm sure
but one example might show why
the reduction reading is ultimately kind of lame
it wd suggest that book without printing
a book of blank pages wd have similar effects
and yet it simply doesnt
framed as art or not
(personal opinion i know but look at it yrself)
so a couple of weeks ago
and this is an index of the difference both in time and mind and much else
cage's time to now
but this phrase spoke from a spicerian martian distance
saying
*all language as poetry*
suddenly revising
*is poetry*
which you must admit is sudden shock for anyone trying to put together a
poetry anthology (me that is)
but more importantly for me is not any "reduction" of activities
but
"now that everything is so easy there is so much to do"
(add a plug for feldmans essays theyre great)
the biggest to do for me seems to be the how to of choosing
more coming
)L
)L
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From jzitt Mon Mar 19 20:48:13 2001
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Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:45:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] Wall Street Journal: Cage/Stockhausen
To: "σ╫Ωí_@dª___" <silence@metatronpress.com>
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Today's (monday , march 19) Wall Street Journal has an
article on the
entertainment/commentary page, first section of the paper
on Cage and
Stockhausen, recent performance of their works in New
York. The article was
very positive and had photos of both.
I don't have a WSJ link tho, because I don't subscribe to
the online version - maybe someone else may be able to
provide one.
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From jzitt Tue Mar 20 02:45:14 2001
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Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:42:48 +0100
Subject: [silence] word works
From: "Helene L=?ISO-8859-1?B?+A==?=kke" <helene.lokke@otk.no>
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Metamkine mentioned a series from MODE which aim to collect all of Cages
spoken works.
Is that so? (Finally!)
Anybody knows whether the lecture 'where are we going? and what are we
doing?' (or the other way around) will be put out?
I performed this once (rearranged for four individual voices) and its a
really fun piece.
Xi Leif Inge
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From jzitt Thu Mar 22 17:11:52 2001
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:09:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] Song Books at Eastman School of Music March 30
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I'm producing a fully-staged performance of Cage's
Song Books at the Eastman School of Music on Friday,
March 30, 2001 as part of the concert season for
our all-student-run new music group/presenting organization,
Ossia. The show starts at 8:00 p.m. Admission is
free. For more information on the cast and
an almost 100% accurate version of my program
notes, visit
http://www.esm.rochester.edu/ossia/0330notes.html
=====
Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music
rob_haskins@yahoo.com
"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting
someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to
accept the situation in which you find yourself._"
-- John Cage
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--
<silence@fourthirtythree.org> has been added to silence.
No action is required on your part.
From jzitt Fri Mar 23 11:06:12 2001
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From: <silence@fourthirtythree.org>
To: <silence@metatronpress.com>
Subject: [silence] SILENCE PLEASE
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:57:24 -0000
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AN APPEAL FOR SILENCE
fourthirtythree.org is a series of projects to mark the 50th anniversary, in
2002, of John Cage's silent composition 'four minutes, thirty-three seconds'
SILENCE PLEASE is our first project. The aim is to collect
single seconds of silence (in the Cagean sense) from as many people as
possible and use them to create collaborative 'performances' of the piece
using contributions from around the world.
If you would like to contribute a second, please go to
fourthirtythree.org
for details
We look forward to hearing from you
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From jzitt Tue Apr 3 07:51:39 2001
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From: "Clemens Gresser" <cgresser@gmx.net>
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Subject: [silence] Ten Thounderclaps completed?
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Dear All,
Just came across a piece called "Ten Thounderclaps" (For the
Birds, p. 118, 141), which Cage mentions as not yet completed. As I
could not find it in Larry Solomon's list - does anyone know whether
it was ever completed?
[N.B. Last time I checked the Peters home page a list of works was
still not online; shall we sign a petition for it? ;-)]
Yours,
Clemens
cgresser@gmx.net
http://www.soton.ac.uk/~cgresser
P.S. My e-mail provider seems to lose some messages from
time to time. If you send me something and expect me to reply
quickly, please resend. Thanks!
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From: "Arturas Bumsteinas" <bumstein@yahoo.com>
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Subject: [silence] call
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 22:19:53 +0200
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Hi there,
This is a call for participation in sound project.
Please resend this call to persons who could be interested in it..
I am working on electro-acoustic work which will be
broadcasted on Istambul radio in the end of April.
It will be music for tape and wind instruments quartet.
The tape of the composition will be formed of various
souds which I'll collect from people from different countries.
This "multicultural" collage will be as acompany for live band.
I search for people who are interested in taking part in this
project.Participants would send a cassete or cd of their special
sounds and I'd find a place for their stuff in the composition.
Sounds could be any kind you like.It is to your choice
what material should be recorded and what its' duration
must be acctually.
There is no deadline, but it would be better to
get your sounds to the end of the April.
All participants will get the final record, when it'll be performed.
For closer definition write to
bumstein@yahoo.com
www.geocities.com/bumsteinas
=20
send to:
Arturas Bumsteinas
RINKTINES 21-64
VILNIUS 2051
LITHUANIA
Thank you for your time.
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi there,<BR>This is a call for =
participation in=20
sound project.<BR>Please resend this call to persons who could be =
interested in=20
it..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am working on electro-acoustic work =
which will=20
be<BR>broadcasted on Istambul radio in the end of April.<BR>It will be =
music for=20
tape and wind instruments quartet.<BR>The tape of the composition will =
be formed=20
of various<BR>souds which I'll collect from people from different=20
countries.<BR>This "multicultural" collage will be as acompany for live=20
band.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I search for people who are interested =
in taking=20
part in this<BR>project.Participants would send a cassete or cd of their =
special<BR>sounds and I'd find a place for their stuff in the=20
composition.<BR>Sounds could be any kind you like.It is to your =
choice<BR>what=20
material should be recorded and what its' duration<BR>must be=20
acctually.<BR>There is no deadline, but it would be better to<BR>get =
your sounds=20
to the end of the April.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All participants will get the final =
record, when=20
it'll be performed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For closer definition write =
to<BR></FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:bumstein@yahoo.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>bumstein@yahoo.com</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.geocities.com/bumsteinas"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>www.geocities.com/bumsteinas</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>send to:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Arturas Bumsteinas<BR>RINKTINES =
21-64<BR>VILNIUS 2051<BR>LITHUANIA</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thank you for your=20
time.<BR></FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From jzitt Wed Apr 4 15:37:19 2001
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From: "Arturas Bumsteinas" <bumstein@yahoo.com>
To: <silence@metatronpress.com>
Subject: [silence] regards and question
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 22:06:15 +0200
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Hello friends,
I'm very thankfull for all the persons who submited to my earlier =
mentioned sound project.
All of them will get the final discs in May.
The project OUSTING.hommage a Dick Higgins. for tape and musicians=20
will be broadcasted on Istanbul Acik radio, 19th of April.
Thank you very much for your interest and help.
At the same time I would like to ask if someone knows
any Cage's works for ordinar SATB choir.
thabk you,
Arturas Bumsteinas
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello friends,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm very thankfull for all the persons =
who submited=20
to my earlier mentioned sound project.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All of them will get the final discs in =
May.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The project OUSTING.hommage a Dick =
Higgins. for=20
tape and musicians </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>will be broadcasted on</FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> Istanbul Acik radio, 19th of April.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thank you very much for your interest =
and=20
help.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>At the same time I would like to ask if =
someone=20
knows</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>any Cage's works for ordinar SATB=20
choir.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thabk you,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Arturas =
Bumsteinas</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From jzitt Fri Apr 13 05:46:03 2001
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From: "Arturas Bumsteinas" <bumstein@yahoo.com>
To: <silence@metatronpress.com>
Subject: [silence] ?
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:26:35 +0200
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Hi,
It seems that Mr.Cage didn't leave any choir works?
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It seems that Mr.Cage didn't leave any =
choir=20
works?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From jzitt Fri Apr 13 08:21:30 2001
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Message-ID: <3AD6FB55.FD936F74@mode.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:12:54 -0400
From: Mode Records <mode@mode.com>
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Organization: Mode Records
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CC: Arturas Bumsteinas <bumstein@yahoo.com>, silence@metatronpress.com
Subject: Re: [silence] ?
References: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0104130825350.12464-100000@world.std.com>
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There are a number of choral pieces for four and more performers, up to large
ensembles. Most of these have been collected on Mode's first volume of Cage's
choral pieces (information below).
mode 71 John CAGE, Vol. 18: The Choral Works 1 - Hymns and Variations for
12 amplified voices; Four2ò; Living Room Music;
ear for Earò; Four Solosò;
FiveùVocalgroup Ars Nova/Tamßs Vet÷.
This disc can be ordered directly from Mode at www.mode.com.
Hope this information is of help.
Brian Brandt
mode records
David P Miller wrote:
> There is, at least, _Litany for the Whale_ and _Ear for EAR_. I don't
> believe either of these are for large ensembles, but they are
> choral. (Actually, I'm only familiar with the former.)
>
> David
> dpmiller@world.std.com
>
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Arturas Bumsteinas wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > It seems that Mr.Cage didn't leave any choir works?
>
> -
> [Searchable Silence archives: http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]
> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc: http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]
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From jzitt Sun Apr 15 04:52:40 2001
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Chaudron?= <chaudron@worldonline.nl>
To: "Silence List" <silence@metatronpress.com>
Subject: [silence] Discography
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 11:42:14 +0200
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Dear people,
Since the New Albion discography is not really updated I decided to make =
a list myself.
Today I published a Cage discography on the net. It comprises available =
records and CD's only. the availability is not always very actual (what =
may be available in one coountry, may not be so in another), some discs =
are hard to get, some may have disappeared completely and other =
recordings I might have missed.
I arranged all Cd's by record label. I am still working on a composition =
> recording list.=20
Please help me to keep this list up to date.
http://home-2.worldonline.nl/~chaudron/discography.html
Good luck,
Andre Chaudron
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear people,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Since the New Albion discography is not =
really=20
updated I decided to make a list myself.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Today I published a Cage discography on =
the net. It=20
comprises available records and CD's only. the availability is not =
always very=20
actual (what may be available in one coountry, may not be so in =
another), some=20
discs are hard to get, some may have disappeared completely and other =
recordings=20
I might have missed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I arranged all Cd's by record label. I =
am still=20
working on a composition > recording list. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please help me to keep this list up to=20
date.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://home-2.worldonline.nl/~chaudron/discography.html">http://h=
ome-2.worldonline.nl/~chaudron/discography.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good luck,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Andre =
Chaudron</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From jzitt Sun Apr 15 11:00:36 2001
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Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 16:55:16 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?sara=20stagg?= <stagbag@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [silence] original composer?
To: silence@metatronpress.com
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Hi
I'm investigating whether John Cage was the only true
original composer of the twentieth century up to 1960.
I am starting to argue that he wasn't wholly original
because he seems to merely have developed Satie's
ideas, and if you look at what Feldman and others were
doing, they were all fairly similar. I am also
putting forward the idea that he started off as a
composer, but his true originality came through when
he moved towards being more of a philosopher than a
composer.
I would love to know what people think of these ideas,
to give me some help in my investigations.
Thanks
Sara Stagg
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From: owner-silence-digest@metatronpress.com (silence-digest)
To: silence-digest@metatronpress.com
Subject: silence-digest V1 #341
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silence-digest Sunday, April 15 2001 Volume 01 : Number 341
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:47:51 -0500 (EST)
From: James Pritchett <jfwp@earthlink.net>
Subject: [silence] Niki de Saint-Phalle Variations II
Regarding that performance of Variations II with Rauschenberg, Tudor,
Johns, etc. -- I remember reading about that one somewhere, but don't
recall the reference offhand. It might have been one of Calvin Tomkins'
books.
I do know that Tudor's realization here was not the same as his amplified
piano realization of 1961 (the one from that great Columbia recording).
It involved a lot of theatrics and props. There are materials relating to
it in the Tudor collection at the Getty Research Institute.
James Pritchett
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:44:24 -0500 (EST)
From: James Pritchett <jfwp@earthlink.net>
Subject: [silence] Electronic music for piano
Regarding Electronic music for piano and Music for Piano 85 -- these are
different works. Music for Piano 85 was unpublished for a long time; the
only source for it that I ever saw was a photograph of the score that Cage
had. I don't know if Peters ever brought that one out.
James Pritchett
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:18:51 EST
From: Pbaker55@aol.com
Subject: [silence] Re: silence-digest V1 #340
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:00:01 +0100 (CET)
From: Heiko Recktenwald <uzs106@IBM.RHRZ.Uni-Bonn.DE>
Subject: Re: Off-topic: E. Jandl (Re: [silence] indeterminacy)
> > Surprised to read the name Jandl here. Are there any more connections
> > between those two ?
>
> You mean the Austrian poet? Apparently, Ernst Jandl was also working as a
> translator - not only as a poet. Maybe a mailinglist on Jandl would know
> more on this thread... :-)
Ah, I see, like HC Artmann, who was also a filmmaker, surprise, surprise,
next wednesday on ARTE tv (for those in germany or france).
Well, still offtopic, thanks,
H.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 08:18:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Handley <thesubtlebody@yahoo.com>
Subject: [silence] cage-related article in OCTOBER
Sorry if this is common knowledge or already
mentioned, but I ran across the following article in
Issue 95 of OCTOBER, an MIT Press theory/crit journal:
Liz Kotz, "Post-Cagean Aesthetics and the Event
Score". (I have not read it yet, so cannot comment,
sorry.) I read another article in a recent issue
(Autumn 2000, Vol. 27, No. 1) of the journal CRITICAL
INQUIRY, published by the University of Chicago Press:
Brandon Joseph, "White on White". It's an interesting
if not particularly probing alignment of Cage and
Rauschenberg. Excerpts can be read at:
http://www.uchicago.edu/research/jnl-crit-inq/27.1/27.1.joseph.html
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