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Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 18:29:09 -0400

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

To: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>

Cc: silence@lists.realtime.net

Subject: Re: Cage, Fluxus & avant-garde

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On Mon, May 17, 1999 at 11:10:28AM -0700, Eric S. Theise wrote:


> The story was told at the Here Comes Everybody conference that John was

> very moved by the phenomena of babies being born addicted to crack as

> it began to receive coverage in the mainstream media. At that time,

> he was surprised to learn that Jesse Jackson was black.


Which reminds me: have proceedings or any other output from that conference

ever been published?

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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:50:22 -0700

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To: daniela cascella <d.cascella@flashnet.it>

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Subject: Re: etudes australes

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Etudes Australes is available on CDs, recorded by both Grete Sultan and

Steven Drury (Steve is on the Silence list -- his CD contains only the

first book, I think). The work was dedicated to Grete Sultan.


Information on the composition is in Jamey Pritchett's book.

Unfortunately, he's no longer on the Silence list.


daniela cascella wrote:

>

> Hello, I've just joined the list. I am an Italian curator of

> contemporary art and I am currently writing a long article for a new

> monographic art magazine published in Rome. This issue's theme is

> "Night" and I would like to say something about the way John Cage used

> star maps in "Etudes Australes" - the problem is, I don't know much

> about them, so I was wondering if anyone could suggest me, first of

> all, a good cd publication of the work and also could explain the

> method used by Cage ( I only know he used star maps, but I don't know

> HOW!?)

> Thanks a lot for your help!

> Best wishes,

> Daniela Cascella

> d.cascella@flashnet.it

--


Best Wishes,


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Larry J Solomon

The Center for the Arts, Pima College, Tucson, AZ 85709-0295

solo@azstarnet.com

Solomon's Music Theory & Composition Resources:

http://www.AzStarNet.com/~solo

Introduction to Music Theory Webcourse:

http://community.cc.pima.edu/classes/mus102/


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From owner-silence@lists.realtime.net Thu Aug 19 14:19:26 1999

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Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:08:31 -0400

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From: Kenneth Goldsmith <kennyg@bway.net>

Subject: Whitney Details

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Many have asked for more details about the Whitney American Century 2 Sound

Works. This is from Stephen Vitiello:


From: stephen vitiello <svitiello@eai.org>

Subject: Re: Whitney Details


Thanks for the note and all enthusiasm.


There are two things happening. Yoko Ono's and Terry Fox's works will be on

stairway landings. Michel Auder, Art by Telephone and Adrian Piper will be

heard in or around one of the phone booths on the second floor. Julia Scher

will be in the 2nd floor bathrooms.


The rest will be played one or two times in the Film and Video Gallery

during the week of January 11. The speakers will be re-set to ear level

rather than overhead film scale. Lights will be dimmed and seats will be

set-up to make it as conducive to listening as possible. There will not be

any live performances that I know of. I proposed several but there was no

money available. Annea Lockwood's piece will be a mini installation -- with

recordings of the river heard on the main sound system and a second CD

player with headphones, will play oral histories. A clock and map will be

mounted on the wall which are specific to the work. Thursday evening with

works by Kaprow and Amacher will be a multi channel presentation. We will

set up multiple speakers and CD players. Bill Fontana's documentations

will be accompanied by printed descriptions and histories. I will try to

make printed material available as often as possible.


Some of the works, such as the Cage piece and tapes from Charlotte Moorman

have never been released. Acconci's Running Tape and Nauman's Record are

more known of than heard. Nic Collins is making a new document of a classic

work. Bob Bielecki is known for his assisting everybody (La Monte Young,

P.Glass, L. Anderson., B.Viola) for the last 30 years but his incredibly

beautiful recordings have almost never been spotlighted as "works."


Thanks for the note on Melodie's name!



Also, here is a list of the the pieces that I selected for the Whitney

that will go up in September-January:


Cough Piece by Yoko Ono, Happy Birthday Mr.

President by Kristin Oppenheim, Voyage to the Center of the Phone Lines,

part 2 by Michel Auder, The Labyrinth Scored for the Purrs of 11 Cats by

Terry Fox, Seriation # 1 by Adrian Piper, Washroom Male, Washroom Female

by Julia Sher, Art by Telephone from MCA Chicago, 1969 and featuring

Artists: Siah Armajani, Arman, Richard Artschwager, John Baldessari, Iain

Baxter, Mel Bochner, George Brecht, Jack Burnham, James Lee Byars, Robert

H. Cumming, Francis Dallegret, Jan Dibbets, John Giorno, Robert Grosvenor,

Hans Haacke, Dick Higgins, Davi Det Hompson, Robert Huot, Alain Jacquet, Ed

Kienholz, Joseph Kosuth, Les Levine, Sol LeWitt, Robert Morris, Bruce

Nauman, Claes Oldenburg, Dennis Oppenheim, Richard Serra, Robert Smithson,

Guenther Uecker, Stan Van Der Beek, Bernar Vernet, Frank Lincoln Viner,

Wolf Vostell, William Wegman, William T. Wiley.


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From owner-silence-digest@mail2.realtime.net Sun Jan 9 17:08:55 2000

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silence-digest Sunday, January 9 2000 Volume 01 : Number 305





----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 03:17:54 +1100

From: "Chris Bieg" <CBieg@swin.edu.au>

Subject: [silence] Re: silence-digest V1 #304 (Christopher Bieg is on leave)


Christopher Bieg is currently on leave (somewhere in Eastern Europe) and

cannot accept any tasks / appointments. He will be back in early

February.


If you wish to contact him personally, try christopherbieg@netscape.com

and he might find time to reply.


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:29:25 -0600

From: C J Mitchell <cmitch3@artic.edu>

Subject: [silence] sonic youth etc


With regard to Sonic Youth's new recording "Goodbye 20th Century", I have a

few questions:


1. The John Cage number pieces, Four^6 and Six: can anyone clarify whether

the scores specify instrumentation? - and, if so, have these recordings

deviated from that?


2. Also, the number of players listed on the CD sleeve doesn't always equal

the number in the title of the piece, which I understood indicated the

number of performers. Can anyone clarify this please?


3. With regard to the CD overall, there are a number of pieces by other

composers which I'd like to get more information on - and would have liked

more details on the CD sleeve. Does anyone know if there's anything posted

on the web or elsewhere with more background to the pieces on this release.

I've tried searching for this but with no success.


Lastly, at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago, Spring 2000 semester

includes a 15 week course: "John Cage: Concepts and Ideas", instructor

Peter Gena. Tuesday mornings 9-12.


Many thanks - CJ Mitchell



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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:37:28 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] sonic youth etc


On Fri, Dec 17, 1999 at 11:29:25AM -0600, C J Mitchell wrote:

> With regard to Sonic Youth's new recording "Goodbye 20th Century", I have a

> few questions:

>

> 1. The John Cage number pieces, Four^6 and Six: can anyone clarify whether

> the scores specify instrumentation? - and, if so, have these recordings

> deviated from that?


Four^6 is for unspecified instrumentation. Dunno about Six.


> 2. Also, the number of players listed on the CD sleeve doesn't always equal

> the number in the title of the piece, which I understood indicated the

> number of performers. Can anyone clarify this please?


There are errors on the CD sleeve. The recording of Four^6 actually has

two simultaneous performances, incorporating eight players, not the

listed six.


> 3. With regard to the CD overall, there are a number of pieces by other

> composers which I'd like to get more information on - and would have liked

> more details on the CD sleeve. Does anyone know if there's anything posted

> on the web or elsewhere with more background to the pieces on this release.

> I've tried searching for this but with no success.


http://www.smellslikerecords.com/syr/syr4/syr4frameset.html for starters.


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:29:08 -0800 (PST)

From: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] sonic youth etc


Joseph Zitt writes:

> On Fri, Dec 17, 1999 at 11:29:25AM -0600, C J Mitchell wrote:

> > With regard to Sonic Youth's new recording "Goodbye 20th Century", I have a

> > few questions:

> >

> > 1. The John Cage number pieces, Four^6 and Six: can anyone clarify whether

> > the scores specify instrumentation? - and, if so, have these recordings

> > deviated from that?

>

> Four^6 is for unspecified instrumentation. Dunno about Six.


Yep, Four6 (1990-1992) is for indeterminate sound sources.


Six (1991) is for 6 Percussionists.


- --Eric

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------------------------------


Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 16:52:50 -0600

From: "Ronsen, Josh" <JRonsen@timcmortgage.com>

Subject: [silence] RE: Cage and Zen (revisited)


Andy wrote:


>...But in the end, it causes you to think, and come to quite

>truthfull realizations. This, in my oppinion, is the most important and

>valuable aspect of both Zen and Cage -- the ability to look within the

>subject at hand, and using your own vision on the matter, pull out

>something quite valuable, and quite revealing.


"to think" is not really the right verb to use when discussing Zen, not in

the way one usually means by "thinking about a problem." Zen is beyond

thinking, beyond rational, logical thought, i.e. when presented with a zoan,

the answer is not through puzzle solving or "thinking," but a strange if not

mystical sudden realization -- Enlightenment. If you mean "to think" as

something that goes on in the brain, well...


I did a little research on this a while back, especially pertaining to the

topic of "petty violence" that I claimed was a link between Zen and Dada,

which someone here said it wasn't without giving any genuine rebuttal. D.T.

Suzuki (whose classes Cage attended around 1950) wrote in his book "Zen and

Japanese Culture" that the act of a master slapping his student across the

face was meant to shock the student out of conscious thinking so that he

could be open to Enlightenment. There are many many examples of this. Hence

I stand by my original claim that "petty violence" is important to Zen, or

to at least to a number of Zen masters.


As for Dada: I argue that the riots that accompanied some of the

performances were deliberately provoked, especially the later performances

in Berlin, and certainly I have never read any Dada writings discussing how

they could make their performances riot-free.


There is a very funny story in the Suzuki book that I must share with you:

it is something I would love to hear Cage read. Basically two samuri

warriors are on a small ferry boat going across a lake. One is very boastful

and wants to fight the other one to show how great a fighter he is to all

the boat passengers. The challenged samuri, who does not want to fight and

would be happy just to nap in the corner, coolly says that he is a master in

"fighting without swords." The boastful samuri is enraged by this and

demands a fight right then and there. The "cool" samuri suggests that they

row to a small island in the middle of the lake and fight there, so innocent

people don't get hurt. It is agreed and the ferry goes to such an island.

The boastful samuri quickly jumps out of the boat onto the island, taking

out his sword to attack the other. The "cool" samuri, still in the boat,

takes off his swords and hands them to the boat rower. He then grabs the oar

and quickly pushes the boat away from the island, leaving the boastful

samuri stranded on the island.


That has nothing to do with anything, but I think it is worth sharing.


- -Josh Ronsen

http://www.nd.org/jronsen




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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 00:18:25 EST

From: Jabooky@aol.com

Subject: Re: [silence] RE: Cage and Zen (revisited)


that same story was in the Bruce Lee movie, Enter the dragon, just to let you

know

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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 07:59:41 +0000

From: John Whiting <john.whiting@which.net>

Subject: Re: [silence] RE: Cage and Zen (revisited)


"Ronsen, Josh" wrote:


> . . . Zen is beyond

> thinking, beyond rational, logical thought, i.e. when presented with a zoan,

> the answer is not through puzzle solving or "thinking," but a strange if not

> mystical sudden realization -- Enlightenment.


Zen was a response to a rigid system of cultural discipline which is, to us

in the West, beyond our imagining. I have always thought that the practice

of Zen within, say, the laid back permissiveness of the California Beat

scene, was rather like playing tennis with no court and no net. (Kenneth

Rexroth agreed.)


John Whiting

Diatribal Press

London


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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:16:50 -0800 (PST)

From: Daniel Feinsmith <radical@well.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] RE: Cage and Zen (revisited)


> "Ronsen, Josh" wrote:

>

> > . . . Zen is beyond

> > thinking, beyond rational, logical thought, i.e. when presented with a zoan,

> > the answer is not through puzzle solving or "thinking," but a strange if not

> > mystical sudden realization -- Enlightenment.

>

> Zen was a response to a rigid system of cultural discipline which is, to us

> in the West, beyond our imagining. I have always thought that the practice

> of Zen within, say, the laid back permissiveness of the California Beat

> scene, was rather like playing tennis with no court and no net. (Kenneth

> Rexroth agreed.)

>

> John Whiting

> Diatribal Press

> London


John,


I think that in your response you are mistaking Japan's "stylings"

sorrounding Buddhist meditation for Zen. The word "Zen" came from the

chinese "Ch'an" which came from Indian Dhyana or Jhana of Buddhist and

pre-Buddhist terminology. Zen wasn't a response to anything, no, not

anything at all, that would certainly miss the point. It is timeless and

spaceless "suchness" which is beyond the never-ending eruptions of

culture-bubbles, time and place, et. al.


Zen in California has definitely taken on a tennis with no court and no

net quality tho, great metaphor!


Daniel.



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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 05:51:16 -0800 (PST)

From: Sergej jegreS <mokmam@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] poem


just came to my mind - don't remember where I saw it

 but it went like this:

LITTLE CHINESE GIRL EXPERIENCING NIRVANA FOR THE 1ST

TIME

she goes to the toilet

without any purpose

if piss comes out she piss

if shit comes out she shit

- ---------------------------


anyway I had some zen oriented (as long as oriented is

the "word") impressions when I met these words,

although it is like indian music - notation follows

the performance


- -------

best wishes to all

- -sergey glinkov

mokmam@yahoo.com


__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.

Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:58:12 EST

From: "Samantha Levin" <binnorie@hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] poem


This poem is lovely!!! It is all I need.


Samantha



>From: Sergej jegreS <mokmam@yahoo.com>

>To: silence@lists.realtime.net

>Subject: [silence] poem

>Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 05:51:16 -0800 (PST)

>MIME-Version: 1.0

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>From owner-silence@lists.realtime.net Wed Dec 22 06:07:59 1999

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>

>just came to my mind - don't remember where I saw it

> but it went like this:

>LITTLE CHINESE GIRL EXPERIENCING NIRVANA FOR THE 1ST

>TIME

>she goes to the toilet

>without any purpose

>if piss comes out she piss

>if shit comes out she shit

>---------------------------

>

>anyway I had some zen oriented (as long as oriented is

>the "word") impressions when I met these words,

>although it is like indian music - notation follows

>the performance

>

>-------

>best wishes to all

>-sergey glinkov

>mokmam@yahoo.com

>

>__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 22:36:50 -0500

From: Matt Sekerke <msekerke@bellatlantic.net>

Subject: [silence] Importing Enlightenment


Just a bit of a digression on the topic of Zen vs. logic:


The scientific community is only beginning to realize the unity of

spontaneous/intuitive thought with controlled inquiry. Recently, Stephen Jay

Gould, president-elect of the American Association for the Advancement of Science,

has pointed out a couple of discoveries that Duchamp inadvertently (?) stumbled

upon through his works, most notably the rotoreliefs and LHOOQ. Einstein often

spoke of classical music as inspiration and guidance when on the threshold of

discovery, and many scientists are accomplished musicians and afficionados of

classical music.


So, what I mean to say is: How do we further the unity of spontaneity/non-linear

thought with the processes of logic that we have been slaves to for the last four

hundred years? How do you effectively have an artist think scientifically, and a

scientist think artistically? That is what I believe is most lost upon the

developing music scene. Artists begin to lose their capacity for experiment (in

the laboratorical sense) when insulated from that community. When they try to

synthesize the two, they usually produce some pseudo-scientific atrocity (witness:

Stockhausen's Astral music, etc.) instead of gaining any of the benefits of

"rational thought". Comments?


Matt Sekerke

(Hey, remember me?)


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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 10:12:48 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] zENlightenment


you may want to try a lighthearted (how else?) look at

zen at http://www.do-not-zzz.com

 rod


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------------------------------


Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 08:15:36 -0600

From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>

Subject: [none]


Hi,


Just a brief note to let all y'all know that this week on Mappings

I've got a show featuring more than an hour of music by

composer/instrument maker/microtonal theorist/curmudgeon Harry

Partch, not entirely unrelated to what we discuss here. You'll hear

The Letter, Ulysses at the Edge, Barstow, Windsong, the Dreamer that

Remains, and more.


the show is available throughout the week at

<http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index.htm>. Note too

that there are now several other shows at Antenna that feature music

you may find relevant: Le Vide, Attacca, Intoxication Hour and more,

all accessible through the link to other shows from the page above.


Bests,


Herb

- --


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NEW MAILING ADDRESS: P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147

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same old e-mail: herb@eskimo.com

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------------------------------


Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:04:39 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] dance personnel for the Black Mountain Event


Does anyone know who danced at the Black

Mountain Happening in 1952 besides

Merce Cunningham?


Thanks!


Rob



=====

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rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

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------------------------------


Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 23:59:02 +0000

From: John Whiting <john.whiting@which.net>

Subject: Re: [silence] dance personnel for the Black Mountain Event


Rob Haskins wrote:

 

> Does anyone know who danced at the Black

> Mountain Happening in 1952 besides

> Merce Cunningham?


In residence during the summer of 1952 were Charles Olson, Franz Kline,

John Cage, Merce Cunningham and David Tudor. Also "Milton" Rauschenberg and

his girl friend, Sue Weill.


"During the summer of 1952, he, Cage and Cunningham--with important

assistance from David Tudor--undertook some explorations in form that had a

notable impact subsequently on the art world, and particularly on the

neo-Dada mΘlanges known as the theater of mixed means." Martin Duberman,

_Black Mountain: an Exploration in Community_, London, Wildwood House, 1974


John Whiting

Diatribal Press

London

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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 10:53:59 -0500

From: Kenneth Goldsmith <kennyg@bway.net>

Subject: [silence] U B U W E B: N E W R E S O U R C E S :: J A N 2 0 0 0


___U B U W E B___V I S U A L , C O N C R E T E + S O U N D___P O E T R Y___=

=20

     =20

           http://www.ubu.com=20



U B U W E B: N E W R E S O U R C E S :: J A N 2 0 0 0=20



      Historical:=20


      John Cage, USA Memogram Correspondence


      Bern Porter, USA Found Poems


      Jacques Villegl=E9, France, Affiches 1960s-1980s



      Sound:=20


      Antonin Artaud

      Pour en finir avec le jugement de dieu (1946)


      Gal, Austria

      Bestimmung New York (1999)


      Luigi Grandi, Italy

      Cavalli + Acciaio (1935)


      Brion Gysin

      Sound Poems and Lectures 1960-1981


      Bob Cobbing

      Sound Poetry 1964-1995


      F'loom

      Sound Poetry (1998)


      Fluxus Anthology

      18 Artist's Soundworks (1962-1989)


      Raoul Hausmann, Austria

      Sound Poetry (1918 / 1959)


      David Moss

      My Favorite Things (1991)


      Narrative Poetry from

      The Black Oral Tradition

      1964-1966


      Ben Patterson

      Early Works, 1960-1995


      Antonio Russolo, Italy

      Chorale (1921)


      Luigi Russolo, Italy

      Risveglio di una Citta (1920s)


      Pierre Schaeffer

      Solfege de l'objet Sonore, 1966 (Complete)


      Poesia Sonora

      Do fonetismo =E0s po=E9ticas=20

      contempor=E2neas de voz, Brazil (1996)=20


      Sound Poetry Today

      An International Compilation (1998)


      Demetrio Stratos

      Cantare La Voce, 1978




      Contemporary:=20


      David Daniels The Gates of Paradise=20



      Papers:=20


      S=E9rgio Bessa, NYC, NY, USA

      Architecture Versus Sound in Concrete Poetry


      Abraham Lincoln Gillespie, USA


      Eugen Gomringer, Switzerland

      1. From Line To Constellation

      2. Concrete Poetry

      3. Max Bill and Concrete Poetry

      4. The Poem As A Functional Object


      Noigandres Group, Brazil

      Pilot Plan for Concrete Poetry


      Marjorie Perloff, USA

      "Concrete Prose": Haroldo de Campos=B9s Gal=E1xias and After


      Pierre Schaeffer, France

      Treatise on Musical Objects


      Mary Ellen Solt, USA

      Concrete Poetry: A World View

      (Indiana University Press, 1968)=20



___U B U W E B___V I S U A L , C O N C R E T E + S O U N D___P O E T R Y___=

=20

     =20

           http://www.ubu.com=20

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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:51:24 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] U B U W E B: N E W R E S O U R C E S :: J A N 2 0 0 0


On Tue, Jan 04, 2000 at 10:53:59AM -0500, Kenneth Goldsmith wrote:

> ___U B U W E B___V I S U A L , C O N C R E T E + S O U N D___P O E T R Y___

>

> http://www.ubu.com

>

>

> U B U W E B: N E W R E S O U R C E S :: J A N 2 0 0 0


Thanks for the update! UBUWEB is one of my favorite spots online. For

those who haven't seen it yet, it's an incredible resource of texts,

recordings, and images, well selected, organized, and designed.

Check it out!


- --

|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|

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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:45:09 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] Robert Ashley interview with Cage?


Friends,


Jill Johnston's review of _Silence_ (reprinted

in Richard Kostelanetz, ed., _John Cage: An

Anthology_) mentions an interview with

the composer Robert Ashley in which he

(Ashley) says,


"It seems to me that your influence on contemporary

music, on 'musicians,' is such that the entire

metaphor of music could change to such an extent

that--time being uppermost as a definition of

music--the ultimate result would be a music that

wouldn't necessarily involve anything but the presence

of people. That is, it seems to me that the most

radical redefinition of music that I could think of

would be one that defines 'music' without reference to

sound."


Any information on the original source?

It doesn't in the bibliographies in Kostelanetz's

anthologies of writings and conversations,

nor did it show up (at least under Ashley's

name) in my own bibliography compiled from

Music Index (paper) and RILM (database).


Please help!


Rob


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 17:08:39 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: [silence] Cage score, sample at Sonic Youth site


The ever-expanding site of Sonic Youth's "Goodbye 20th Century" at

http://www.smellslikerecords.com/syr/index.html now contains a page

from the score of Cage's Four6 and a 3 minute sample of their

performance.

- --

|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 07:18:12 -0600

From: tgaud@inc.net (Thomas Gaudynski)

Subject: [silence] Re: Robert Ashley interview with Cage?


Hello Rob,


The comment by Robert Ashley to John Cage is actually in an interview with

Cage conducted by Roger Reynolds that is contained in an Edition Peters

catalog of Cage's work published in 1962.


A footnote says, "Mr. Ashley, a composer living in Ann Arbor, is one of

the organizers of the ONCE activities. He was enjoying the interview (by

Reynolds), which took place in his living room, and asked if he might

comment at this point."


I bought the catalog used sometime in the seventies and so I'm not sure of

its availbaility. Its a fascinating document including descriptions of many

pieces (organized by performance requirements - voice, strings, etc.),

representative pages from scores, a discography, photographs, a forward by

Cage and a vintage advertisement for "Silence" from Wesleyan University

Press.


Hope this helps.


Thomas Gaudynski

Milwaukee



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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 06:57:57 -0600

From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Robert Ashley interview with Cage?


Hi,


I'm pretty sure there was an interview between Ashley & Cage in the

program for New Music America 1982 (?), the year it was in Chicago,

but this would be far too late for a review of Silence. I'll pull it

out this weekend, if I can find it (my NMA stuff is in one of the

boxes we haven't unpacked yet) & see what's up.


The quote sounds a lot like something out of Roger Reynolds' Mind

Models, which I just returned to the library so I can't check for

sure.


Bests,


Herb


>Friends,

>

>Jill Johnston's review of _Silence_ (reprinted

>in Richard Kostelanetz, ed., _John Cage: An

>Anthology_) mentions an interview with

>the composer Robert Ashley in which he

>(Ashley) says,

>

>"It seems to me that your influence on contemporary

>music, on 'musicians,' is such that the entire

>metaphor of music could change to such an extent

>that--time being uppermost as a definition of

>music--the ultimate result would be a music that

>wouldn't necessarily involve anything but the presence

>of people. That is, it seems to me that the most

>radical redefinition of music that I could think of

>would be one that defines 'music' without reference to

>sound."

>

>Any information on the original source?

>It doesn't in the bibliographies in Kostelanetz's

>anthologies of writings and conversations,

>nor did it show up (at least under Ashley's

>name) in my own bibliography compiled from

>Music Index (paper) and RILM (database).

>

>Please help!

>

>Rob

>

>=====

>Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

>rob_haskins@yahoo.com

>

>"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

> someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

> accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

> -- John Cage

>__________________________________________________

>Do You Yahoo!?

>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

>http://messenger.yahoo.com

>-

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NEW MAILING ADDRESS: P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147

NEW PHONE: 817 377-2983

same old e-mail: herb@eskimo.com

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 07:23:02 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Robert Ashley interview with Cage?


Thanks to Herb and Thomas Gaudynski

<tgaud@inc.net> for their answers to

my Cage/Ashley query. Thomas told me

the remark of Ashley's quoted by

Jill Johnston is actually in an

interview with Roger Reynolds,

published in the Dunn book _John

Cage_ (NY: Peters, 1962). (And

I'd actually remembered later that

evening that that was where I'd

seen it.)


This interview was published previously

(and I don't have the book on hand

to tell me where), and it was also

published in the Schwartz and Childs

anthology _Contemporary Composers

on Contemporary Music_ (recently

republished in an expanded version by

Da Capo press). And it might _also_,

according to Herb, be in _Mind Models._

Fun, fun.


Herb, I'd love to know if you find

an interview with Ashley in _New Music

America_ 1982.


It's nice that some of this material gets

republished, but it can be confusing

as well, as you see. Thanks again for

all your help.


Rob


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 09:30:45 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Robert Ashley interview with Cage?


                                                  Hi,

Folks: I got into

this thread a little late... The

quote is INDEED from the '62 E.P. list and it

continues after that quote as...


JC: Oh yes, I made some use of that in my silent

piece. [Ed. Note: {a description of the piece

follows}.


RA: It doesn't strike me as being that.


JC: But that involves a number of people being

together, and there are no special sounds.


RA: If our awareness of time increased to such a

degree that it didn't require that we be informed of

time through the medium of sound - if our awareness of

time became enlarged or changed to a really radical

degree - then it's conceivable that we would do away

with sound.


JC: but we can't. You see there are always sounds.



As for the New Music America '82;


It consists of an article written by Ashley called,

"Just One Complaint" and is not an interview - more of

a lengthy statement on John's influence on music,

philosophy, visual arts, and other areas.


Rod


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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:17:12 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Robert Ashley interview with Cage?


- --- Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com> wrote:


> As for the New Music America '82;

>

> It consists of an article written by Ashley called,

> "Just One Complaint" and is not an interview - more

> of

> a lengthy statement on John's influence on music,

> philosophy, visual arts, and other areas.


Ah, in that case I don't need that, because it

was reprinted in _A John Cage Reader_

(which itself was largely a reprint of a special

issue of the _TriQuarterly_ 54).


Rob


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 14:18:18 -0500

From: David Beardsley <xouoxno@virtulink.com>

Subject: [silence] Sundays in the Dream House


MELA presents


Sundays in the Dream House


Two Memorial Concerts

Two of history's most important and yet to be understood composers


Richard Maxfield (1927 - 69)


Live and interactive tape music by America's first

electronic music composer and teacher.


January 23, 2000, 4 pm


*


Terry Jennings (1940 û 81)


Compositions for piano and strings by one of the

founders of minimalist keyboard music


January 30, 2000, 4 pm


Performed by


Charles Curtis

Joseph Kubera

Michael Schumacher

La Monte Young


Admission $18 / 14 MELA members


MELA Foundation

275 Church Street, New York, NY 10013

212-925-8270


More information as it becomes available at

http://lamonteyoung.com


MELA's programs are made possible with public funds

from the New York State Council on the Arts, a State Agency.



- --

* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y

* xouoxno@virtulink.com

*

* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"

* M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor

*

* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

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------------------------------


Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 14:38:48 -0600 (CST)

From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>

Subject: Re: [silence] Sundays in the Dream House


On Sun, 9 Jan 2000, David Beardsley wrote:


> Richard Maxfield (1927 - 69)

>

> Live and interactive tape music by America's first

> electronic music composer and teacher.

>

> January 23, 2000, 4 pm


Please explain how, and when, Richard Maxfield became "America's first

electronic electronic music composer and teacher."


LC

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------------------------------


Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 20:33:49 +0000

From: John Whiting <john.whiting@which.net>

Subject: Re: [silence] Sundays in the Dream House


David Beardsley wrote:

 

> Richard Maxfield (1927 - 69)

> . . . America's first electronic music composer and teacher.


Interesting and important indeed, but preceded by San Francisco's Henry

Jacobs, who is still alive. Jacobs was working with disks at the same time,

and in much the same way, as Schaeffer and Henri at Paris Radio in the 50s.


John Whiting

Diatribal Press

London

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------------------------------


Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 13:35:30 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: Fwd: Re: [silence] Sundays in the Dream House


 --- Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>

> wrote:

> > Please explain how, and when, Richard Maxfield

> > became "America's first

> > electronic electronic music composer and teacher."

> >

> > LC

>

> Yes, I was wondering the same thing (he wasn't even

> the first "electronic electronic music composer")!

>

> Rod


=====

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------------------------------


End of silence-digest V1 #305

*****************************



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silence-digest Thursday, January 13 2000 Volume 01 : Number 306





----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:36:34 +1100

From: "Chris Bieg" <CBieg@swin.edu.au>

Subject: [silence] Re: silence-digest V1 #305 (Christopher Bieg is on leave)


Christopher Bieg is currently on leave (somewhere in Eastern Europe) and

cannot accept any tasks / appointments. He will be back in early

February.


If you wish to contact him personally, try christopherbieg@netscape.com

and he might find time to reply.


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------------------------------


Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 21:48:34 -0600

From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>

Subject: [silence] Cage in RealAudio


This week's Mappings presents polkas, tangos and arrangements of

Beatles songs by new music composers. I've programmed Cage's "The

Beatles 1962-1970" and "Tango Perpetual" for this show, in addition

there are works by other composers likely to be of interest to

readers of this list.


<http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index.htm>


Hope you like it.

- --


Herb Levy

NEW MAILING ADDRESS: P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147

NEW PHONE: 817 377-2983

same old e-mail: herb@eskimo.com

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------------------------------


Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 19:57:09 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] John Cage, Homosexual


This topic came up briefly in June of 1999,

when Philip Brett posted his dictionary

article on Cage for the _Garland Encyclopedia

of Homosexuality_


<http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/text/silence1286.txt>



Having reread Professor Brett's entry I find

it thought-provoking and want to include it

in a doctoral seminar on Cage I'm teaching

this Spring at Eastman. I wonder what

others think about the question of whether Cage's

sexuality has relevance to his art.


Has the Jonathan Katz article cited in

the Brett entry ("John Cage's Queer Silence or How

to Avoid Making Matters Worse." GLQ, forthcoming)

appeared yet? I just found web info

on GLQ but it didn't include an index of

already published stuff, so I'll have to

check the next time I get to the Current

Periodicals Room at the University of Rochester.

Anyway, if/when the Katz article is published,

we could read it and discuss it here; that

might be a good starting point.


That is, assuming the discussion is of

general interest. It might not be. :)


Rob


Rob


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 20:57:28 -0800

From: mark and/or melissa <burzy@drizzle.com>

Subject: [silence] an introduction and sonic youth


- --------------6CD9909D66FA6CABC86243FE

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


hello...first off id like to say that im new to this list...a little

about me...ive been a cage fan since elementary school (thanks mom!) and

my interests in the avant garde etc have grown since...i live and work

in seattle washington...outside of my day job i am a musician/artist who

plays any instrument he can get his hands on (with varying degrees of

success) and a number of things that arent intended as instruments (test

and medical equip. etc) as well as ocassionally build my own

instruments...i also run a small (emphasize small) record label /

recording studio / promotion outfit that releases, records, and hosts

concerts by myself and like minded folk (visit me!

http://members.xoom.com/transients) if you are planning on being in the

area and want to set up a show or recruit a guide contact me...now on to

the news at hand!


someone asked:

>3. With regard to the CD overall, there are a number of pieces by other


>composers which I'd like to get more information on - and would have

liked

>more details on the CD sleeve. Does anyone know if there's anything

posted

>on the web or elsewhere with more background to the pieces on this

release.

>I've tried searching for this but with no success.


well try a few of these...

cornelious cardew (im a big fan) member of seminal improv group AMM and

currently:

- - http://www.composer.co.uk/composers/cardew.html

pauline oliveros queen of minimal accordian (ive not once heard her play

lady of spain)

- - http://www.deeplistening.org/

 they are two of my favorites (aside from cage) and i recommend a

couple of magazines as well:

- -halana (too little known) http://www.halana.com/

- -the wire (more common, and frequent)

http://www.dfuse.com/the-wire/homefr.htm

- -musicworks (less common than the wire but more than halana...a little

snooty at times) http://www.musicworks-mag.com/


thanks for listening


- --------------6CD9909D66FA6CABC86243FE

Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">

<html>

hello...first off id like to say that im new to this list...a little about

me...ive been a cage fan since elementary school (thanks mom!) and my interests

in the avant garde etc have grown since...i live and work in seattle washington...outside

of my day job i am a musician/artist who plays any instrument he can get

his hands on (with varying degrees of success) and a number of things that

arent intended as instruments (test and medical equip. etc) as well as

ocassionally build my own instruments...i also run a small (emphasize small)

record label / recording studio / promotion outfit that releases,&nbsp;

records, and hosts concerts by myself and like minded folk (visit me! <A HREF="http://members.xoom.com/transients">http://members.xoom.com/transients</A>)

if you are planning on being in the area and want to set up a show or recruit

a guide contact me...now on to the news at hand!

<p>someone asked:

<br>><i>3. With regard to the CD overall, there are a number of pieces

by other</i>

<br><i>>composers which I'd like to get more information on - and would

have liked</i>

<br><i>>more details on the CD sleeve. Does anyone know if there's anything

posted</i>

<br><i>>on the web or elsewhere with more background to the pieces on this

release.</i>

<br><i>>I've tried searching for this but with no success.</i><i></i>

<p>well try a few of these...

<br>cornelious cardew (im a big fan) member of seminal improv group AMM

and currently:

<br>- <A HREF="http://www.composer.co.uk/composers/cardew.html">http://www.composer.co.uk/composers/cardew.html</A>

<br>pauline oliveros queen of minimal accordian (ive not once heard her

play lady of spain)

<br>- <A HREF="http://www.deeplistening.org/">http://www.deeplistening.org/</A>

<br>&nbsp;they are two of my favorites (aside from cage) and i recommend&nbsp;

a couple of magazines as well:

<br>-halana (too little known) <A HREF="http://www.halana.com/">http://www.halana.com/</A>

<br>-the wire (more common, and frequent) <A HREF="http://www.dfuse.com/the-wire/homefr.htm">http://www.dfuse.com/the-wire/homefr.htm</A>

<br>-musicworks (less common than the wire but more than halana...a little

snooty at times) <A HREF="http://www.musicworks-mag.com/">http://www.musicworks-mag.com/</A>

<p>thanks for listening</html>


- --------------6CD9909D66FA6CABC86243FE--


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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:31:00 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] Cunningham/Black Mountain


A while back Rob Haskins asked about the Black

Mountain event and its dancers - I wanted to spread a

little more light on that:


It seems that "Theatre Piece" was a collaboration by

Cage, Cunningham, Charles Olsen, Rauschenberg, M. C.

Richards, David Tudor and some others in the summer of

'52 (Incidentally, Merce also played the role of Harry

Beaton and choreographed the play "Brigadoon" given in

Burnsville, N.C. that summer.)


As far as actual dances - I'm only aware of "Suite of

Six Short Dances" which was a Merce solo accompanied

by some recorder pieces (spring '52 @ Black Mountain).


In '53 (Aug. 21): The company performed excerpts from

"Symphonie Pour Un Homme Seul" (known as "Collage" at

the Blk. Mtn. perf.) and consisted of:


I: Solo


II: Cunningham, Natanya Neumann, Joan Skinner,

Anneliese Widman, Joanne Finkelor, Jo Anne Melsher,

Marianne Preger, Greta Rosenzweig, Remy Charlip, Ben

Garber, Donald McKayle


III: Solo


There seems to be some instances when they were joined

by Carolyn Brown, Viola Farber, Paul Taylor, Ethel

Brodsky, Anita Dencks, Deborah Moscowitz, and Timothy

La Farge in various configurations, but even David

Vaughan (Cunningham archivist) says that there are

very few instances where no programs appear to exist

and some of the Blk. Mtn. performances are,

unfortunately, those (the others being his

performances with Tanaquil Le Clercq and Betty Nichols

in Paris in 1949.


Hope this is of some help and isn't too late.


Rod

 



=====

http://rostasi.8m.com


http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html


"I hardly

hear a word he

says. I am too distracted by his Silence."

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 23:15:57 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: [silence] Cage Performs Cage: The Text Pieces I - The Artist Pieces


Amazon lists this as due from Mode on the 25th, including:


                       1. Series re Morris Graves

                       Composed by John Cage

                       with John Cage


                       2. Art Is Either a Complaint or Do Something Else

                       Composed by John Cage

                       with John Cage


                       3. What You Say

                       Composed by John Cage

                       with John Cage


Definitely a must-get... (but I'm suspicious of the $29.67 Amazon is

charging for a single disc. Is this a glitch, or is there something

added on the disc?)


- --

|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 06:35:03 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cunningham/Black Mountain


Hi Rod,


It's never too late to know something I didn't

know before. I'm still interested to know

what dancers joined Merce Cunningham for

the Black Mountain Event--but the story on

everything else that was going on is

fascinating!


Thanks again.


Rob


- --- Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com> wrote:

> A while back Rob Haskins asked about the Black

> Mountain event and its dancers - I wanted to spread

> a

> little more light on that:

>

> It seems that "Theatre Piece" was a collaboration by

> Cage, Cunningham, Charles Olsen, Rauschenberg, M. C.

> Richards, David Tudor and some others in the summer

> of

> '52 (Incidentally, Merce also played the role of

> Harry

> Beaton and choreographed the play "Brigadoon" given

> in

> Burnsville, N.C. that summer.)

>

> As far as actual dances - I'm only aware of "Suite

> of

> Six Short Dances" which was a Merce solo accompanied

> by some recorder pieces (spring '52 @ Black

> Mountain).

>

> In '53 (Aug. 21): The company performed excerpts

> from

> "Symphonie Pour Un Homme Seul" (known as "Collage"

> at

> the Blk. Mtn. perf.) and consisted of:

>

> I: Solo

>

> II: Cunningham, Natanya Neumann, Joan Skinner,

> Anneliese Widman, Joanne Finkelor, Jo Anne Melsher,

> Marianne Preger, Greta Rosenzweig, Remy Charlip, Ben

> Garber, Donald McKayle

>

> III: Solo

>

> There seems to be some instances when they were

> joined

> by Carolyn Brown, Viola Farber, Paul Taylor, Ethel

> Brodsky, Anita Dencks, Deborah Moscowitz, and

> Timothy

> La Farge in various configurations, but even David

> Vaughan (Cunningham archivist) says that there are

> very few instances where no programs appear to exist

> and some of the Blk. Mtn. performances are,

> unfortunately, those (the others being his

> performances with Tanaquil Le Clercq and Betty

> Nichols

> in Paris in 1949.

>

> Hope this is of some help and isn't too late.

>

> Rod

>

>

>

> =====

> http://rostasi.8m.com

>

>

http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html

>

> "I hardly

> hear a word he

> says. I am too distracted by his Silence."

> __________________________________________________

> Do You Yahoo!?

> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

> http://im.yahoo.com

> -

> [Searchable Silence archives:

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> text "info silence" ]

>


=====

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rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 07:02:26 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage Performs Cage: The Text Pieces I - The Artist Pieces


Joseph:


Yes, I noticed it for 24.49 where I usually get my CDs

(I avoid Amazon). Maybe Brian can give us some more

info (poss. CD ROM stuff?)


- --- Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> wrote:

> Amazon lists this as due from Mode on the 25th,

> including:

>

> 1. Series re Morris Graves

> Composed by John Cage

> with John Cage

>

> 2. Art Is Either a Complaint

> or Do Something Else

> Composed by John Cage

> with John Cage

>

> 3. What You Say

> Composed by John Cage

> with John Cage

>

> Definitely a must-get... (but I'm suspicious of the

> $29.67 Amazon is

> charging for a single disc. Is this a glitch, or is

> there something

> added on the disc?)


=====

http://rostasi.8m.com


http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html


Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage

__________________________________________________

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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:06:50 -0500

From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>

Subject: Re(2): [silence] Cunningham/Black Mountain


On Wed, Jan 12, 2000, Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:

>It's never too late to know something I didn't

>know before. I'm still interested to know

>what dancers joined Merce Cunningham for

>the Black Mountain Event--but the story on

>everything else that was going on is

>fascinating!


>From what I've known and learned from David Patterson - an expert on the

"Black Mountain years" - there weren't any other dancers other than Merce

for the event, except for maybe the dog that chased him around the space.


And I'm trying to figure out Rod's attribution below...by "Theatre

Piece", you're not talking about the Black Mountain "Happening", correct?

Beacuse "Theatre Piece" is a composition in and of its own, inspired by

the *type* of event that the "Happening" was, which itself was not

composed at all (at least not anywhere near the extent that Theatre Piece is).


>> It seems that "Theatre Piece" was a collaboration by

>> Cage, Cunningham, Charles Olsen, Rauschenberg, M. C.

>> Richards, David Tudor and some others in the summer

>> of '52 (Incidentally, Merce also played the role of

>> Harry Beaton and choreographed the play "Brigadoon" given

>> in Burnsville, N.C. that summer.)


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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 07:16:12 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cunningham/Black Mountain


- --- Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi Rod,

>

> It's never too late to know something I didn't

> know before. I'm still interested to know

> what dancers joined Merce Cunningham for

> the Black Mountain Event--but the story on

> everything else that was going on is

> fascinating!

>

> Thanks again.

>

> Rob



Well, like I said...


>"...even David

> > Vaughan (Cunningham archivist) says that there are

> > very few instances where no programs appear to

> exist

> > and some of the Blk. Mtn. performances are,

> > unfortunately, those..."


He (Vaughan) adds:"...and Mr.Cunningham's own

recollections proved to be incomplete...", so maybe we

can hope Merce has started taking Ginkgo :)


Rod


=====

http://rostasi.8m.com


http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html


Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:49:46 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage Performs Cage: The Text Pieces I - The Artist Pieces


Brian Brandt at Mode informs me that it's a 2-CD set of Cage

performing 3 of his text pieces (the first in a series Mode

will do of Cage performing his own works) in a deluxe set with a

slipcase, booklet with liner notes by Richard Kostelanetz, and

the complete texts read by Cage.


It'll be available next week at the Mode site, which now can do

Visa and Mastercard. I'll be ordering directly from them, since it

cuts out the middle-men and gets more of the money back in the

hands of the artists.


I'm eagerly looking forward to this!


- --

|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 07:41:02 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] Cunningham/Black Mountain


> --- Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> wrote:

> >

> > And I'm trying to figure out Rod's attribution

> > below...by "Theatre

> > Piece", you're not talking about the Black

> Mountain

> > "Happening", correct?

> > Beacuse "Theatre Piece" is a composition in and of

> > its own, inspired by

> > the *type* of event that the "Happening" was,

> which

> > itself was not

> > composed at all (at least not anywhere near the

> > extent that Theatre Piece is).

>

> I believe you're right, but I probably should give

> it

> some more research...it's funny, most of the

> annotations that I have on that time seem to gloss

> over '52 very lightly and jumps to B.M. events of

> '53.

> EX:

>

> "Cunningham continued to give yearly concerts of

> solo

> and group works in New York, but without a regular

> company. In the early fifties he was in summer

> residence at Black Mountain College in North

> Carolina.

> There, in 1952, he collaborated with John Cage,

> Robert

> Rauschenberg and others in the presentation of

> Cage's

> "Theatre Piece #1" which might be said to mark the

> beginning of the new theatre movement (happenings,

> mixed media events) of the Fifties and Sixties. In

> the

> same year Cunningham choreographed for the Brandeis

> Featival of Creative Arts, using a company that

> included several of his New York students. These

> accompanied him to Black Mountain in the summer of

> 1953. That August they gave two performances at

> Black

> Mountain of a repertory of dances they had rehearsed

> during the summer and preceding winter. This marked

> the Cunningham Company as a regularly constituted

> performing organization."

>

> I have another book that has much in Spanish that I

> need to spend some time with, so I'll let you know

> if

> I come up with something

>

> Rod


=====

http://rostasi.8m.com


http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html


Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:49:43 EST

From: KULTBOX@aol.com

Subject: [silence] cage/tudor electronix


Has anyone on the list ever built any of tudors EFX boxes?

Does anyone have any DETAILED information/gear lists


I know some info is on the EMF.ORG web page...but nothing too interesting or

detailed.....


r

www.kultbox.com

**************************

Kurzwelle Landscape (For John Cage)- Kultbox Hyper/media Instillation:

Chicago USA

February 2000.

***********************


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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 08:06:40 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re(4): [silence] Cunningham/Black Mountain


- --- Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> wrote:

> Where is this quote from? The Fetterman?


It's from David Vaughan's "A Biography" written in

"Dance Perspectives".


Rod


=====

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Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:34:30 -0500

From: "\[jk\] ishovi" <moffie@iname.com>

Subject: [silence] introductions


hello everyone!

My name is josef kijewski

I'm a student at Bates College in Lewiston, Maine

and apart from having developed a deep interest in cage within the last year

[although knowing almost nothing to substantiate that interest]

I have enrolled in a class here specifically about him.

I've also [obviously] signed up here

for the purpose of reading what goes on

and also participating as I can.


I don't know the 'climate' of this list

some that i've been on before are extremely warm and interested in newcomers

while others treat their new presence as a sort of violation of their sanctuary

and dislike having to explain things the person 'ought to already know'.

i hope that this list is of the former!

I'm sure you all know there's tons to learn about john cage

and I hope that the people on this list are willing to let me ask questions

which might seem dumb

but indulge me for the sake of my own want to learn.


Thank you all so much - I look forward to the future.


- -josef kijewski

- --------------------------------------------

[nun 1] Sir, it is only a play... with music. Do not distress yourself.


[cosimo] It is only a play... with music? Does God say the same at every

death? It is only a play... with music? When I die, will someone say the

same? He was only a prince. He died. It was only a play... with music.


[Nun 2] (Very quietly) Sir, be grateful for the music. Most of us die in

silence.


[peter greenaway - the baby of macon]

- ------------- http://www.the-loft.demon.co.uk/moffie/ -------------------

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 16:29:49 +0000

From: John Whiting <john.whiting@which.net>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cunningham/Black Mountain


Rod Stasick wrote:

 

> In '53 (Aug. 21): The company performed excerpts from

> "Symphonie Pour Un Homme Seul" (known as "Collage" at

> the Blk. Mtn. perf.)


This of course would be the musique concrete composition by Pierre

Schaeffer, first performed in concert in Paris in 1950.


John Whiting

Diatribal Press

London



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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:25:49 -0700

From: Larry Solomon <solo@azstarnet.com>

Subject: [silence] Barney Childs


I thought that the list would like to know that I received news that

Barney Childs died last night at his home in Redlands, CA. Barney was a

great supporter of new music in America, a prolific composer, musical

explorer, fascinating lecturer and essayist, a great mind, and just a

wonderful person. I will miss him.

- --


Cheers,


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Larry J Solomon

The Center for the Arts, Pima College, Tucson, AZ 85709-0015

solo@azstarnet.com

Solomon's Music Theory & Composition Resources:

http://www.AzStarNet.com/~solo

Introduction to Music Theory Webcourse:

http://community.cc.pima.edu/classes/mus102/


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:53:35 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re:al [silence] Barney Childs


Thanks Larry for that info - a shame really that he's

gone and wasn't more well known. Rod


=====

http://rostasi.8m.com


http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html


Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:42:47 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] introductions


Hello Josef,


Since no reply sometimes can seem to be

interpreted as a statement of non-welcome,

and since no one has done so already,

Let me say, Hello! Welcome to the list!


I think we're very much interested in

answering any question, even if it's

been asked before. So ask away.


Maybe you could tell me what department

your Cage class is being taught in

and give us some sense of the reading

list and syllabus.


Rob


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 17:59:11 -0500

From: "\[jk\] ishovi" <moffie@iname.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] introductions


Thank you Rob for your welcome!


>Maybe you could tell me what department

>your Cage class is being taught in

>and give us some sense of the reading

>list and syllabus.


THe course is being taught in the Music Department by a woman who's

specialty is 20th century "experimentalist" composers. The books we have to

buy are just a copy of 'Silence' and a copy of 'THe Roaring Silence' [David

Revill's Cage bio]. However, our library is very Cage-friendly, with an

abundance of videos, manuscripts, and what not - and a large part of our

course will be made up of exploring those resources.


The sylabus itself basically is made up of a student-presentation on a

given subject in relation to him every tuesday and thursday [when the 1.5

hour class takes place], a reading, a listening, and whatever the teacher

would like to add. the student topics [which seem to corrilate with the

readings] are:


overview, biography

cage's early years

expanded sound resources

prepared piano

marcel duchamp, erik satie and antonin artaud

cage and zen buddhism

chance and indeterminacy; graphic notation

abstract expressionism and action painting

black mountain college

cage and technology

bickminster fuller and marshall mccluhan

merce cunningham

cunningham cont.

concept art and fluxus

cage's political views ca. 1970

cage and popular music, jazz, and non-western music

cage and james joyce

[a recital of cage's work]

late works, chamber music and opera


i'm also taking a class on performance art and the avant guard which seems

to contain a fair bit on cage and cunningham, as well as my newfound

interest in robert wilson.


um. and yes. i believe that is it.

forgive the poor punctuation and spelling. i am in a hury and never could

spell well.


- -josef

- --------------------------------------------

[nun 1] Sir, it is only a play... with music. Do not distress yourself.


[cosimo] It is only a play... with music? Does God say the same at every

death? It is only a play... with music? When I die, will someone say the

same? He was only a prince. He died. It was only a play... with music.


[Nun 2] (Very quietly) Sir, be grateful for the music. Most of us die in

silence.


[peter greenaway - the baby of macon]

- ------------- http://www.the-loft.demon.co.uk/moffie/ -------------------

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:44:56 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] introductions


On Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 05:59:11PM -0500, jk ishovi wrote:


> overview, biography

> cage's early years

> expanded sound resources

[etc]


Sounds like a well-designed and intriguing class!


> i'm also taking a class on performance art and the avant guard which seems

> to contain a fair bit on cage and cunningham, as well as my newfound

> interest in robert wilson.


Hm! Sounds also worth taking (I'm somewhat of a Wilson fanatic, though

I find that some of his pieces work better than others).


Please let the rest of the class know about the Silence list. The

primary texts are a good source of knowledge about Cage, but people

here might also help fill in the gaps.


- --

|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|

| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |

| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:21:00 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] introductions


I have a sneaking suspicion that this teacher may

already be a member of this list... Would you like to

give up a name? Rod


=====

http://rostasi.8m.com


http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html


Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage

__________________________________________________

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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:42:41 -0500

From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>

Subject: Re(2): [silence] introductions


>> overview, biography

>> cage's early years

>> expanded sound resources


I'm glad they're covering the early years, and I hope equal time is given

to the late years and the visual art.


>Please let the rest of the class know about the Silence list. The

>primary texts are a good source of knowledge about Cage, but people

>here might also help fill in the gaps.


Especially the Revill...


>

>--

>|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|

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>-

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 16:12:08 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions


...also, I think "For the Birds" gives a nice

impression of Cage's character when dealing with other

people (serenity, humor, etc.) as interviewee.


If I could say, too, that whatever you learn during

this class - ALWAYS remember that Cage's philosophy is

NOT "anything goes".


Rod


=====

http://rostasi.8m.com


http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html


Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:28:52 -0600 (CST)

From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>

Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions


On Wed, 12 Jan 2000, Matthew Ross Davis wrote:

>

> >Please let the rest of the class know about the Silence list. The

> >primary texts are a good source of knowledge about Cage, but people

> >here might also help fill in the gaps.

>

> Especially the Revill...


If this means "fill in the gaps," especially [in] the Revill, I agree.

If it means that the Revill book helps to "fill in the gaps," I

disagree.


I find the Revill book to be lacking in historical and "interpretive"

depth, to be poorly documented, and one which containing errors and

misinterpretations.


If one follows -- page by page -- the references at the end of the book,

there are crucial sections that are not documented. I have the sad

feeling that Revill really did not know John Cage.


Lowell Cross

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------------------------------


End of silence-digest V1 #306

*****************************



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silence-digest Thursday, January 13 2000 Volume 01 : Number 307





----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:42:08 +1100

From: "Chris Bieg" <CBieg@swin.edu.au>

Subject: [silence] Re: silence-digest V1 #306 (Christopher Bieg is on leave)


Christopher Bieg is currently on leave (somewhere in Eastern Europe) and

cannot accept any tasks / appointments. He will be back in early

February.


If you wish to contact him personally, try christopherbieg@netscape.com

and he might find time to reply.


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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:54:52 -0500

From: "\[jk\] ishovi" <moffie@iname.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] introductions


At 03:21 PM 12 . 01 . 00 -0800, you wrote:

>I have a sneaking suspicion that this teacher may

>already be a member of this list... Would you like to

>give up a name? Rod


i think she is

she gave out this list in the class!


Dr. Amy Clark Beal

- --------------------------------------------

[nun 1] Sir, it is only a play... with music. Do not distress yourself.


[cosimo] It is only a play... with music? Does God say the same at every

death? It is only a play... with music? When I die, will someone say the

same? He was only a prince. He died. It was only a play... with music.


[Nun 2] (Very quietly) Sir, be grateful for the music. Most of us die in

silence.


[peter greenaway - the baby of macon]

- ------------- http://www.the-loft.demon.co.uk/moffie/ -------------------

- -

[Searchable Silence archives: http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:59:16 -0500

From: "\[jk\] ishovi" <moffie@iname.com>

Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions


At 04:12 PM 12 . 01 . 00 -0800, you wrote:

>...also, I think "For the Birds" gives a nice

>impression of Cage's character when dealing with other

>people (serenity, humor, etc.) as interviewee.


I will keep a look out for that....

i forgot to mention that I also have a copy of 'conversations with cage'

that i had picked up a few months ago, as well as I-VI with the cd which i

picked up in the college store.


>If I could say, too, that whatever you learn during

>this class - ALWAYS remember that Cage's philosophy is

>NOT "anything goes".


because, logically enough, what the kind of philosophy would that be?

no philosophy at all!


- --------------------------------------------

[nun 1] Sir, it is only a play... with music. Do not distress yourself.


[cosimo] It is only a play... with music? Does God say the same at every

death? It is only a play... with music? When I die, will someone say the

same? He was only a prince. He died. It was only a play... with music.


[Nun 2] (Very quietly) Sir, be grateful for the music. Most of us die in

silence.


[peter greenaway - the baby of macon]

- ------------- http://www.the-loft.demon.co.uk/moffie/ -------------------

- -

[Searchable Silence archives: http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]

[How to join, unsubscribe, etc: http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]

[ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the text "info silence" ]


------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:13:37 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] introductions


- --- Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 05:59:11PM -0500, jk ishovi

>

> > i'm also taking a class on performance art and the

> avant guard which seems

> > to contain a fair bit on cage and cunningham, as

> well as my newfound

> > interest in robert wilson.

>

> Hm! Sounds also worth taking (I'm somewhat of a

> Wilson fanatic, though

> I find that some of his pieces work better than

> others).


I love Wilson too. Y'all may already know

about the Wilson archive <www.robertwilson.com> --

great site, with info on some things that

are available for purchase. And a lot

of his performances videotaped from the

theatre, like _Einstein_, are available

for view in NY at the NYPL, I believe.

I want to try to go there some weekend

and see _Einstein_ again.


Rob


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

http://im.yahoo.com

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:19:12 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions


Josef,


whatever else you read, read _I-VI_ --

even if you want to stop. Read it,

if you can, one lecture at a time

until you're done. Later on you'll

say it was one of the most amazing

experiences you've ever had. :)


Rob


- --- "[jk] ishovi" <moffie@iname.com> wrote:

> At 04:12 PM 12 . 01 . 00 -0800, you wrote:

> >...also, I think "For the Birds" gives a nice

> >impression of Cage's character when dealing with

> other

> >people (serenity, humor, etc.) as interviewee.

>

> I will keep a look out for that....

> i forgot to mention that I also have a copy of

> 'conversations with cage'

> that i had picked up a few months ago, as well as

> I-VI with the cd which i

> picked up in the college store.

>

> >If I could say, too, that whatever you learn during

> >this class - ALWAYS remember that Cage's philosophy

> is

> >NOT "anything goes".

>

> because, logically enough, what the kind of

> philosophy would that be?

> no philosophy at all!

>

> --------------------------------------------

> [nun 1] Sir, it is only a play... with music. Do not

> distress yourself.

>

> [cosimo] It is only a play... with music? Does God

> say the same at every

> death? It is only a play... with music? When I die,

> will someone say the

> same? He was only a prince. He died. It was only a

> play... with music.

>

> [Nun 2] (Very quietly) Sir, be grateful for the

> music. Most of us die in

> silence.

>

> [peter greenaway - the baby of macon]

> -------------

> http://www.the-loft.demon.co.uk/moffie/

> -------------------

> -

> [Searchable Silence archives:

> http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]

> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc:

> http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]

> [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the

> text "info silence" ]

>


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 18:30:17 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions


If I assign any readings from Revill,

I also have my students read Richard

Kostelanetz's review for _Notes._

Maybe one day soon one of the other

biographies will come out, or maybe

David Revill will do another edition,

correct the errors, and document his

sources more scrupulously.


Rob


- --- Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>

wrote:

>

>

> On Wed, 12 Jan 2000, Matthew Ross Davis wrote:

> >

> > >Please let the rest of the class know about the

> Silence list. The

> > >primary texts are a good source of knowledge

> about Cage, but people

> > >here might also help fill in the gaps.

> >

> > Especially the Revill...

>

> If this means "fill in the gaps," especially [in]

> the Revill, I agree.

> If it means that the Revill book helps to "fill in

> the gaps," I

> disagree.

>

> I find the Revill book to be lacking in historical

> and "interpretive"

> depth, to be poorly documented, and one which

> containing errors and

> misinterpretations.

>

> If one follows -- page by page -- the references at

> the end of the book,

> there are crucial sections that are not documented.

> I have the sad

> feeling that Revill really did not know John Cage.

>

> Lowell Cross

> -

> [Searchable Silence archives:

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>


=====

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rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 21:52:15 -0500

From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>

Subject: Re(4): [silence] introductions


On Wed, Jan 12, 2000, Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu> wrote:

>> >Please let the rest of the class know about the Silence list. The

>> >primary texts are a good source of knowledge about Cage, but people

>> >here might also help fill in the gaps.

>>

>> Especially the Revill...

>

>If this means "fill in the gaps," especially [in] the Revill, I agree.

>If it means that the Revill book helps to "fill in the gaps," I

>disagree.


This is precisely what I meant. I agree with all the points you make

about the book.


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Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 21:53:08 -0500

From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>

Subject: Re(4): [silence] introductions


>If this means "fill in the gaps," especially [in] the Revill, I agree.

>If it means that the Revill book helps to "fill in the gaps," I

>disagree.


Buh, what I SHOULD have said was that I meant to fill in the gaps IN the

Revill. Sorry for that confusion!


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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:20:32 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions


- --- Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Josef,

>

> whatever else you read, read _I-VI_ --

> even if you want to stop. Read it,

> if you can, one lecture at a time

> until you're done. Later on you'll

> say it was one of the most amazing

> experiences you've ever had. :)



Yes, and outloud if possible.


Also, I, too, agree with Lowell, Rob, & Matthew's

observations on the Revill.


Rod


=====

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Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:01:18 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] introductions


On Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 06:13:37PM -0800, Rob Haskins wrote:


> I love Wilson too. Y'all may already know

> about the Wilson archive <www.robertwilson.com> --

> great site, with info on some things that

> are available for purchase. And a lot

> of his performances videotaped from the

> theatre, like _Einstein_, are available

> for view in NY at the NYPL, I believe.

> I want to try to go there some weekend

> and see _Einstein_ again.


Yow. I'd definitely make a roadtrip for that...


- --

|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:02:16 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions


On Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 06:19:12PM -0800, Rob Haskins wrote:


> whatever else you read, read _I-VI_ --

> even if you want to stop. Read it,

> if you can, one lecture at a time

> until you're done. Later on you'll

> say it was one of the most amazing

> experiences you've ever had. :)


And, if you can, read it *aloud*.


- --

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:04:29 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions


On Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 06:30:17PM -0800, Rob Haskins wrote:

> If I assign any readings from Revill,

> I also have my students read Richard

> Kostelanetz's review for _Notes._

> Maybe one day soon one of the other

> biographies will come out, or maybe

> David Revill will do another edition,

> correct the errors, and document his

> sources more scrupulously.


Don't forget James Pritchett's essential "The Music of John Cage".

I wonder whatever happened to the bio by Jill Johnston that was

supposed to come out last year. The publisher had listed it for a

while, but, last I looked, it had disappeared.


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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:37:41 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions


- --- Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 12, 2000 at 06:30:17PM -0800, Rob

> Haskins wrote:

> > If I assign any readings from Revill,

> > I also have my students read Richard

> > Kostelanetz's review for _Notes._


>

> Don't forget James Pritchett's essential "The Music

> of John Cage".


Oh, I never forget that one. It's absolutely

essential reading.


> I wonder whatever happened to the bio by Jill

> Johnston that was

> supposed to come out last year. The publisher had

> listed it for a

> while, but, last I looked, it had disappeared.


Dunno. Mark Swed was working on one and

so is Frans von Rossum.


Rob


=====

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rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 22:32:20 -0600 (CST)

From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>

Subject: [silence] Cage, Revill, at al.


On Wed, 12 Jan 2000, [jk] ishovi wrote:


> At 08:28 PM 12 . 01 . 00 -0600, Lowell Cross wrote:

> [snip]

> >I find the Revill book to be lacking in historical and "interpretive"

> >depth, to be poorly documented, and one which containing errors and

> >misinterpretations.


First, I apologize, there were typos there. It should have read "one

that *contains* errors ... ."


> this might be quite a lot to ask, but do you think you could offer some

> information on what exactly you feel is missing from this book? it could be

> very helpful when reading through it and in the in-class discussions.


As a student, you could write a term paper reviewing the Revill book for

your class. One of my criticisms is about his imprecise documentation.

Page by page, one finds unfortunate gaps in the references when looking

back at the narrative.


And that's what I find the book to be: a narrative, specifically an

anecdotal narrative, often unsubstantiated.


I'm reading a bio on Buddy Holly by Philip Norman entitled _Rave On_.

This "pulp"-"pop" piece is worse than Revill's bio of Cage, but it

reminds me that even Cage has received the same treatment in a bio that

various "pop" figures have. It seems that it's now OK to treat a

subject in an anecdotal, loosely documented manner if the subject is

popular enough, and/or famous enough, to withstand any kind of

"biographical" treatment whatsoever.


I may be, through no fault of my own, one of the only extant beings to

have known both John Cage and Buddy Holly personally. Otherwise, there

cannot be much of an excuse for my mentioning them together in the same

sentence except as cited above.


;-)


Sorry for the digression, and best wishes to all,


Lowell Cross

 





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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 22:51:48 -0500

From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>

Subject: Re(4): [silence] introductions


On Wed, Jan 12, 2000, Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Dunno. Mark Swed was working on one and

>so is Frans von Rossum.


I should add the David Patterson is also editing a new book on Cage,

which as I understand is nearly finished.


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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:37:33 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] introductions


>

> And, if you can, read it *aloud*.

>

>


Yeah, that too!

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 00:18:01 EST

From: Acousticlv@aol.com

Subject: [silence] Re: mode cagerecords


<<

Yes, I noticed it for 24.49 where I usually get my CDs (I avoid Amazon).>>


all Modes not more than $15 from anomalousrecords.com---> <A

HREF="http://www.anomalousrecords.com/main.html">Anomalous - main</A>

love to all,

steve koenig

la folia music review, ny editor <www.lafolia.com><A

HREF="http://www.lafolia.com/">...La Folia Music Review</A>

jazzweekly, ny correspondent <www.jazzweekly.com><A

HREF="http://www.jazzweekly.com/">..Jazz Weekly</A>

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:48:48 +0330

From: "Arshia Cont" <cont@mavara.com>

Subject: [silence] another introducter..


Hi ishovi & all;


    ishovi's introduction was what exactly I wanted to put on the list for

months but I couldnt come to.. . I'm

a young iranian student, adoring contemporary music & specially cage (My

music teacher used to call me

Cage's ambassador in Iran!)

    We have a great lack of cultural activities in our country as one can

find no Cage works or books &

articles here about Cage. All I have I got it from abroad privately.

    Recently I got Cage's Piano Concertos.. : Concerto for prep. piano &

orch. (1951) performed by Charles

Peltz (cond.) & Stephen Drury & also Concerto for Piano & orchestra

(1957-8) with David Tudor, piano &

live electrocnics & Ingo Metzmacher as conductor with Ensemble Modern.

    Listening to many contemporary pieces such as works by Berio, Boulez,

Stockhausen, Saariaho &... I

was never confused this much! I would be really grateful if you give me some

hints on how & with what

idea I should listen to these pieces or the philosophy & the forms of the

pieces (if any..!) beyond these

two works which I know are the most important of his works or any refrence

on the net I could go after.. .

    Let me apologize for asking such low-level question, But I'm sure it'll

be at great help for other young

Cage fans who are approaching their own aspects as well.

    With great thanks. :)



Arshia Cont


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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:38:06 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re(4): [silence] introductions


- --- Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 12, 2000, Rob Haskins

> <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >Dunno. Mark Swed was working on one and

> >so is Frans von Rossum.

>

> I should add the David Patterson is also editing a

> new book on Cage,

> which as I understand is nearly finished.


Yes, that's the one he proposed to the

University of Rochester Press, adapted

from his dissertation. Should be great!


Anyone know Patterson's obituary-review that

was published in the journal _repercussions_?

That is a very thought-provoking piece,

too.


Rob


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 06:51:20 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] another introducter..


Hi Arshia Cont,


Can you get the Pritchett book on Cage's

music? That will tell you a lot about

how many of the pieces are put together

and make some comments about their sound,

though the question of "how to listen"

would probably vary from listener to

listener. The "standard" line (that

seems quite a contradiction in terms)

is that you should try to listen in

such a way that everything seems to be

its own center, its own most important

place in the whole. Though I, with

my old-fashioned mode of listening

directionally, often trace

different pathways through the same

piece through successived listenings.

I try to find something new that I

haven't found before.


Rob


- --- Arshia Cont <cont@mavara.com> wrote:

> Hi ishovi & all;

>

> ishovi's introduction was what exactly I wanted

> to put on the list for

> months but I couldnt come to.. . I'm

> a young iranian student, adoring contemporary music

> & specially cage (My

> music teacher used to call me

> Cage's ambassador in Iran!)

> We have a great lack of cultural activities in

> our country as one can

> find no Cage works or books &

> articles here about Cage. All I have I got it from

> abroad privately.

> Recently I got Cage's Piano Concertos.. :

> Concerto for prep. piano &

> orch. (1951) performed by Charles

> Peltz (cond.) & Stephen Drury & also Concerto for

> Piano & orchestra

> (1957-8) with David Tudor, piano &

> live electrocnics & Ingo Metzmacher as conductor

> with Ensemble Modern.

> Listening to many contemporary pieces such as

> works by Berio, Boulez,

> Stockhausen, Saariaho &... I

> was never confused this much! I would be really

> grateful if you give me some

> hints on how & with what

> idea I should listen to these pieces or the

> philosophy & the forms of the

> pieces (if any..!) beyond these

> two works which I know are the most important of his

> works or any refrence

> on the net I could go after.. .

> Let me apologize for asking such low-level

> question, But I'm sure it'll

> be at great help for other young

> Cage fans who are approaching their own aspects as

> well.

> With great thanks. :)

>

>

> Arshia Cont

>

> -

> [Searchable Silence archives:

> http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]

> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc:

> http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]

> [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the

> text "info silence" ]

>


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:26:23 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Re: mode cagerecords


- --- Acousticlv@aol.com wrote:


>

> all Modes not more than $15 from

> anomalousrecords.com--->


      Yes, I really like Anomalous, but is this true

for 2-CD sets as well?

      Joseph's idea about getting it directly from

Brian is a good idea. The extra money that you pay

helps him (B.B.) put out more releases.

      I have to admit tho' that when I do orders, I

usually do them in large quantities, so that's why I

often place orders from distributors instead of labels

(single mode CD for ex: $12.50) and I use Anomalous

and/or OtherMusic for harder to get items.


      Rod


=====

http://rostasi.8m.com


http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html


Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:55:49 +0100

From: "Samuelator X \(Omega Vriezen Version\)" <sqv@xs4all.nl>

Subject: [silence] Fugue


Just for the heck of it,


I'd like to advance this proposition:


The number pieces are in fact fugues with notes as subjects - or strettos

in fugues.


This may seem a bizarre or useless way of looking, but for me it explains

the temporal integrity of the structure which gives me an experience of

time quite similar to fugues by Bach or the more intricate renaissance

motets, through the way the textures 'lead' the attention from voice to

voice and the way at the same time tension is kept up by the law of let's

say the inner energy of the subject - if you hear a subject enter, a

tension field is set up which expects the subject to be heard fully. In the

number pieces, this tension field would consist of the way a good performer

will allow the sound to come into existence and then proceed naturally to

its decay.


Thus, to become more iconoclastic, late Cage actually connects with

Germanic traditions - which would mark a difference with the earlier stuff

that, to me, seems more generally understandable in a French sort of way

moving from one interesting sound object to another much as Debussy or

Messiaen might do.


Any of you have thoughts about this?






- - Samuel





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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:02:01 EST

From: "T. Ankersmit" <t_ankersmit@hotmail.com>

Subject: [silence] mumma's writings


i've been looking for writings by gordon mumma, can anyone help?

apparently a collection of his essays was published at some point, is this

still in print?


thanks in advance,

thomas ankersmit.

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:26:42 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Fugue


But the different parts in the Number pieces

are not identical in any way. So in what

sense are the notes "subjects" or (harder

to understand) "strettos"? Are you thinking

of one of the pieces in particular? If

you could name it, and describe where

you're thinking and in what parts, I

could understand what you're driving at.


Rob


- --- "Samuelator X (Omega Vriezen Version)"

<sqv@xs4all.nl> wrote:

> Just for the heck of it,

>

> I'd like to advance this proposition:

>

> The number pieces are in fact fugues with notes as

> subjects - or strettos

> in fugues.

>

> This may seem a bizarre or useless way of looking,

> but for me it explains

> the temporal integrity of the structure which gives

> me an experience of

> time quite similar to fugues by Bach or the more

> intricate renaissance

> motets, through the way the textures 'lead' the

> attention from voice to

> voice and the way at the same time tension is kept

> up by the law of let's

> say the inner energy of the subject - if you hear a

> subject enter, a

> tension field is set up which expects the subject to

> be heard fully. In the

> number pieces, this tension field would consist of

> the way a good performer

> will allow the sound to come into existence and then

> proceed naturally to

> its decay.

>

> Thus, to become more iconoclastic, late Cage

> actually connects with

> Germanic traditions - which would mark a difference

> with the earlier stuff

> that, to me, seems more generally understandable in

> a French sort of way

> moving from one interesting sound object to another

> much as Debussy or

> Messiaen might do.

>

> Any of you have thoughts about this?

>

>

>

>

>

> - Samuel

>

>

>

>

> -

> [Searchable Silence archives:

> http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]

> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc:

> http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]

> [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the

> text "info silence" ]

>


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:02:15 +0100

From: Lasse Eriksson <lasse.eriksson@lepab.se>

Subject: [silence] (no subject)


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:12:48 +0100

From: "Samuelator X \(Omega Vriezen Version\)" <sqv@xs4all.nl>

Subject: Re: [silence] Fugue


At 10:26 13-01-00 -0800, you wrote:

>But the different parts in the Number pieces

>are not identical in any way. So in what

>sense are the notes "subjects" or (harder

>to understand) "strettos"? Are you thinking

>of one of the pieces in particular? If

>you could name it, and describe where

>you're thinking and in what parts, I

>could understand what you're driving at.

>

>Rob


Well, a single note would be the full subject, (Why not?) and the

overlapping of the notes which you get (can get) in many of these pieces

would then be the stretto already.





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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:47:35 -0500

From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>

Subject: Re(2): [silence] Fugue


More importantly, the parts are in no way related to each other. No

performer in a multiple-performer piece should be influenced by the

performance of any other.


Early on in his career, Cage *did* see himself as a "natural procession"

of the German tradition of which you speak - i.e. Mozart -> Brahms ->

Wagner -> Schoenberg -> Cage. However, he didn't really claim this at all

beyond those early years, nor did he embrace it very wholeheartedly.


Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, but if anything the early part of

his career was "German" (Schoenberg) and the middle and later parts were

"French" (Satie).


On Thu, Jan 13, 2000, Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:


>But the different parts in the Number pieces

>are not identical in any way. So in what

>sense are the notes "subjects" or (harder

>to understand) "strettos"? Are you thinking

>of one of the pieces in particular? If

>you could name it, and describe where

>you're thinking and in what parts, I

>could understand what you're driving at.

>

>Rob

>

>--- "Samuelator X (Omega Vriezen Version)"

><sqv@xs4all.nl> wrote:

>> Just for the heck of it,

>>

>> I'd like to advance this proposition:

>>

>> The number pieces are in fact fugues with notes as

>> subjects - or strettos

>> in fugues.

>>

>> This may seem a bizarre or useless way of looking,

>> but for me it explains

>> the temporal integrity of the structure which gives

>> me an experience of

>> time quite similar to fugues by Bach or the more

>> intricate renaissance

>> motets, through the way the textures 'lead' the

>> attention from voice to

>> voice and the way at the same time tension is kept

>> up by the law of let's

>> say the inner energy of the subject - if you hear a

>> subject enter, a

>> tension field is set up which expects the subject to

>> be heard fully. In the

>> number pieces, this tension field would consist of

>> the way a good performer

>> will allow the sound to come into existence and then

>> proceed naturally to

>> its decay.

>>

>> Thus, to become more iconoclastic, late Cage

>> actually connects with

>> Germanic traditions - which would mark a difference

>> with the earlier stuff

>> that, to me, seems more generally understandable in

>> a French sort of way

>> moving from one interesting sound object to another

>> much as Debussy or

>> Messiaen might do.

>>

>> Any of you have thoughts about this?

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> - Samuel

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> -

>> [Searchable Silence archives:

>> http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]

>> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc:

>> http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]

>> [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the

>> text "info silence" ]

>>

>

>=====

>Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

>rob_haskins@yahoo.com

>

>"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

> someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

> accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

> -- John Cage

>__________________________________________________

>Do You Yahoo!?

>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

>http://im.yahoo.com

>-

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>



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------------------------------


End of silence-digest V1 #307

*****************************



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silence-digest Friday, January 21 2000 Volume 01 : Number 308





----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 06:46:33 +1100

From: "Chris Bieg" <CBieg@swin.edu.au>

Subject: [silence] Re: silence-digest V1 #307 (Christopher Bieg is on leave)


Christopher Bieg is currently on leave (somewhere in Eastern Europe) and

cannot accept any tasks / appointments. He will be back in early

February.


If you wish to contact him personally, try christopherbieg@netscape.com

and he might find time to reply.


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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:56:52 -0800 (PST)

From: Alexander Burov <sashabur@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] John Cage meets Sun Ra


Greetings!


I see there are a lot of Cage experts. Could you

please answer the following question then?

Some people say there was the only concert

of John Cage w/ Sun Ra (which was recorded in 1986

and became an LP "John Cage meets Sun Ra"

(Meltdown MPA-1)), some people say there were more

concerts. Where is the truth? Could anybody on this

list add something about it? Has anybody witnessed/

heard of such a concert? (and, in this case, where

and when it took place)


Thank you in advance,

Sasha B.

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:57:24 -0500

From: Glenn Freeman <glennf@grfn.org>

Subject: Re: [silence] Fugue - The Number Pieces


That's it. "Silence Fugues (or inventions)"



If you take a look at THREE2 (1991) you will discover that MOST of part one is

scored for "instrument 3" and MOST of part 2 is scored for "instrument 1" and

MOST of part 3 is scored for "instrument 2". Many of the multiple-part number

pieces end up relating in this way...this is precisely due to the chance methods

set-up by Cage; and that's one of the whole points (or non-points) which might be

gained from these works.


Yes, when they overlap, a type of "counterpoint" is perceived at the NOTE-LEVEL

(TIMBRE-LEVEL). I agree! These are LONG spans of time, but this type of

perception is highly likely as we start to tune into this type of long-term listening/awareness...


...more interestingly...the silences present between notes become yet other

subjects or counter-subjects. So, if you are HEARING/AWARE of both the silences

AND the notes as subjects/counter-subjects, a loose sort of "stretto"

occurs...but subject-based counterpoint may be a better definition...please help

me here - theory experts!!!



Till later,

Glenn



PS - We are looking forward (and busily preparing) to our forthcoming John Cage

CD (March, 2000) offering, which will consist of...



THREE2 (1991)

Glenn Freeman, percussion


TWENTY-THREE (1988)

Christina Fong, violins/violas

Karen Krummel, cellos


SIX (1991)

Glenn Freeman, percussion


TWENTY-SIX (1991)

Christina Fong, violins



Bob wrote:


"But the different parts in the Number pieces are not identical in any way. So in

what sense are the notes "subjects" or (harder to understand) "strettos"? Are you

thinking of one of the pieces in particular? If you could name it, and describe

where you're thinking and in what parts, I could understand what you're driving at."



Omega Vriezen Version wrote:


"Just for the heck of it, I'd like to advance this proposition: The number pieces

are in fact fugues with notes as subjects - or strettos in fugues."

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:42:11 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Fugue - The Number Pieces


I'd be quite interested in knowing how you approached the single-performer

multiple-part pieces. I suppose that they're multitracked, but there are

a lot of parameters involved. Were the performers able to hear the parts

they'd previously recorded? Did you do anything to ensure either that the

performers would forget what they had done previously, or that they would

not? The area is rich with possibilities...


On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 04:57:24PM -0500, Glenn Freeman wrote:


> PS - We are looking forward (and busily preparing) to our forthcoming John Cage

> CD (March, 2000) offering, which will consist of...

>

>

> THREE2 (1991)

> Glenn Freeman, percussion

>

> TWENTY-THREE (1988)

> Christina Fong, violins/violas

> Karen Krummel, cellos

>

> SIX (1991)

> Glenn Freeman, percussion

>

> TWENTY-SIX (1991)

> Christina Fong, violins


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 01:16:53 +0100

From: "Samuelator X \(Omega Vriezen Version\)" <sqv@xs4all.nl>

Subject: Re: Re(2): [silence] Fugue


>More importantly, the parts are in no way related to each other. No

>performer in a multiple-performer piece should be influenced by the

>performance of any other.


True.


1. In the absence of more than one note for a theme the whole idea of a

complementary rhythm would break down, this is not an aspect that interests

me.


2. Harmony. The voices in a fugue move together in a harmonious pattern.

Now we know Cage felt these late pieces to have to do with harmony in a way

that previously his work hadn't (reading Schoenberg and all). - how does

this connect? I suppose harmony in these pieces is two things, and these

two things are the essence of what harmony always was: first, it's take the

time to let the sound resonate and acquire identity; second, it's good

voice leading. The view I'd like to propose some day interprets a single

note as containing the tension span of a theme and also lets a single notes

therefore be a good voice leading.


3. And of course, Cage still asks performers to listen while they're playing.


4. Perhaps I should not refer to fugue primarily but to the motet a la

Gombert, in which the voices overlap so much there is not much of

discursive interaction between the voices going on either.



>Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, but if anything the early part of

>his career was "German" (Schoenberg) and the middle and later parts were

>"French" (Satie).


I am proposing another kind of germanic tradition, perhaps it should

properly be thought of as the Burgundy/Flemish/Netherlands-German line.


For me, connecting what happens in the music of Ockeghem (and Bach) with

what the New York figures were doing may be a vital intellectual project,

maybe there's something to learn there...





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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:56:14 -0500

From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>

Subject: Re(4): [silence] Fugue


>1. In the absence of more than one note for a theme the whole idea of a

>complementary rhythm would break down, this is not an aspect that interests

>me.


Especially because complimentary rhythm is impossible with the

indeterminate nature of the pieces.


>2. Harmony. The voices in a fugue move together in a harmonious pattern.

>Now we know Cage felt these late pieces to have to do with harmony in a way

>that previously his work hadn't (reading Schoenberg and all). - how does

>this connect? I suppose harmony in these pieces is two things, and these

>two things are the essence of what harmony always was: first, it's take the

>time to let the sound resonate and acquire identity; second, it's good

>voice leading. The view I'd like to propose some day interprets a single

>note as containing the tension span of a theme and also lets a single notes

>therefore be a good voice leading.


Heh! Well, as cool and metaphysical as that might be, I think you're

walking on thin ice when you take terminology which applies to an older

and completely different style of music and try to make it fit to such an

extent within another style.


Identity I will agree with, it's what Cage was all about - the identity,

uniqueness and individual quality of each sound. The idea of harmony

which Cage was mentioning in these last years was an extremely general

one: that the sounds happen together.


The concept of voice leading is completely in contradiction with

practically anything Cage ever did, and to try and apply it to his music

is, I think, missing the point, however esoteric you get with it. Voice

leading by definition is the movement and progression of sounds through

time, where Cage's use of sound in these pieces - though we do *perceive*

them through time, indeed we experience them - are extremely vertical and

he ment them to be heard that way.


With the addition of defining a theme as a single note, it again simply

smells like an attempt to analyze new music with old terminology, which

just doesn't work and isn't practical, causing the definitions themselves

to be useless.


Obviously I'm of the opinion that history shouldn't be used to analyze

the present. Especially with Cage. We experience and live forward, we

don't experience backward.


>3. And of course, Cage still asks performers to listen while they're playing.


Does he?


>4. Perhaps I should not refer to fugue primarily but to the motet a la

>Gombert, in which the voices overlap so much there is not much of

>discursive interaction between the voices going on either.


I say it's an interesting comparison, it brings all kinds of things

within perspective of each other, and in many cases even share a similar

aesthetic. But I think the analysis stops there because any deeper -

theoretically speaking - they're apples and oranges. That may be your

point, that the challenge is to find the similarities of the

compositional styles, but I'll say again that I think it's missing the point.


>I am proposing another kind of germanic tradition, perhaps it should

>properly be thought of as the Burgundy/Flemish/Netherlands-German line.


I would be hesitant to place Cage within *any* tradition. :)


>For me, connecting what happens in the music of Ockeghem (and Bach) with

>what the New York figures were doing may be a vital intellectual project,

>maybe there's something to learn there...


Aesthetically I think this is a very interesting comparison, because very

often the same people who love early music also love contemporary music

and dislike everything inbetween (except maybe Mozart....*grin*). I think

the thing to learn here could be related to how such extreme differences

in compositional style, theory and technique can produce music so

aesthetically close.


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 00:33:45 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: Re(4): [silence] Fugue


On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 07:56:14PM -0500, Matthew Ross Davis wrote:


> >I am proposing another kind of germanic tradition, perhaps it should

> >properly be thought of as the Burgundy/Flemish/Netherlands-German line.

>

> I would be hesitant to place Cage within *any* tradition. :)


I think Cage does fit in with several traditions, though mostly very

American ones, as George Leonard's "Into the Light of Things" and

some of the essays in "Composed in America" show. He also thought of

himself, at least early on, as coming from both Schoenberg and Satie.

But perhaps the essential American tradition is the crunching

together of disparate strains and making something new. And, as

Phil Corner has pointed out, another key American tradition is that

each generation, like clockwork, rebels against the previous.


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 00:22:45 -0500

From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>

Subject: Re(6): [silence] Fugue


On Fri, Jan 14, 2000, Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> wrote:


>On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 07:56:14PM -0500, Matthew Ross Davis wrote:

>

>> >I am proposing another kind of germanic tradition, perhaps it should

>> >properly be thought of as the Burgundy/Flemish/Netherlands-German line.

>>

>> I would be hesitant to place Cage within *any* tradition. :)

>

>I think Cage does fit in with several traditions, though mostly very

>American ones, as George Leonard's "Into the Light of Things" and

>some of the essays in "Composed in America" show. He also thought of

>himself, at least early on, as coming from both Schoenberg and Satie.

>But perhaps the essential American tradition is the crunching

>together of disparate strains and making something new. And, as

>Phil Corner has pointed out, another key American tradition is that

>each generation, like clockwork, rebels against the previous.


I probably should have said traditions that came before him, because I

agree that Cage can be placed into traditions which became formed as his

career moved along the path of American music. :)


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 06:45:25 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re(4): [silence] Fugue


- --- Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 07:56:14PM -0500, Matthew

> Ross Davis wrote:

>

> > >I am proposing another kind of germanic

> tradition, perhaps it should

> > >properly be thought of as the

> Burgundy/Flemish/Netherlands-German line.

> >

> > I would be hesitant to place Cage within *any*

> tradition. :)

>

> I think Cage does fit in with several traditions,

> though mostly very

> American ones, as George Leonard's "Into the Light

> of Things" and

> some of the essays in "Composed in America" show.


Absolutely. But what tradition does Cage's

work fit into after 1952 or so? (That's not

merely a rhetorical or ironic question!)


Rob


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:34:25 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: Re(4): [silence] Fugue


On Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 06:45:25AM -0800, Rob Haskins wrote:


> Absolutely. But what tradition does Cage's

> work fit into after 1952 or so? (That's not

> merely a rhetorical or ironic question!)


Well, historical musicology is far from my strong suite (Help! David!

:-] ), but I think there's still somewhat of the Ives, etc, influence,

as well as that of Webern and Satie. (Though those might be viewed as

unconnected.) In the American anti-tradition tradition (I'll have to

type in the bit from the Philip Corner interview from ... hmm, I've

forgotten the name of the journal, but i know where it is at home...),

he continued from what preceded him by combining earlier things and

soetimes expanding, sometimes negating. Would, for example, Cage have

come up with allowing all sound as music had Schoenberg not freed the

12 tones, and Varese, Russolo, etc, making their moves? Maybe,

but perhaps not as readily, or in the same way.


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:42:50 -0700

From: Larry Solomon <solo@azstarnet.com>

Subject: Re: Re(4): [silence] Fugue


There is an excellent book by David Nicholls, *American Experimental

Music, 1890-1940* that deals with Cage's place in the American

experimental tradition. Although the book title indicates an end date of

1940, I believe Nicholl's observations are easily extended to Cage's

music beyond his esthetic break after 1950.


BTW, has anyone seen/read Doug Kahn's new book, *Noise, Water, Meat, a

History of Sound in the Arts*? I am finding it to be difficult reading.

It contains the essay "John Cage: Silence and Silencing" that was

discussed here earlier and has the subcontent "Much to Confess About

Nothing; Canned Silence; Silencing Techniques; Cage and the Impossible

Inaudible".

- --


Cheers,


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Larry J Solomon

The Center for the Arts, Pima College, Tucson, AZ 85709-0015

solo@azstarnet.com

Solomon's Music Theory & Composition Resources:

http://www.AzStarNet.com/~solo

Introduction to Music Theory Webcourse:

http://community.cc.pima.edu/classes/mus102/


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:53:13 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re(4): [silence] Fugue


- --- Larry Solomon <solo@azstarnet.com> wrote:

 

> BTW, has anyone seen/read Doug Kahn's new book,

> *Noise, Water, Meat, a

> History of Sound in the Arts*? I am finding it to be

> difficult reading.

> It contains the essay "John Cage: Silence and

> Silencing" that was

> discussed here earlier and has the subcontent "Much

> to Confess About

> Nothing; Canned Silence; Silencing Techniques; Cage

> and the Impossible

> Inaudible".

> --

With Kahn's "Silence and Silencing," I found

that the jargon he was using was not familiar

enough to me always to understand the points

he was trying to make. But I'll need to

get the book! :)


Rob


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

http://im.yahoo.com

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 20:19:10 +0100

From: Clemens Gresser <C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de>

Subject: [silence] problems with lists (sorry for sending this via the list)


Dear list members!


Sorry to bother the list about this:

In the last few days I keep receiving most messages from

SILENCE twice. Does this happen to anybody else or is this

just a local/personal problem?

Sorry again, for disturbing (the un-)SILENCE.


Regards,

Clemens Gresser


C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de

http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~cgresser

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:26:23 -0600 (CST)

From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>

Subject: Re: [silence] problems with lists (sorry for sending this via the list)


Hello Clemens Gresser and Silence list members,


I have had the same problem, but not consistently. Let's see what

happens with this message.


Lowell Cross



On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Clemens Gresser wrote:


> Dear list members!

>

> Sorry to bother the list about this:

> In the last few days I keep receiving most messages from

> SILENCE twice. Does this happen to anybody else or is this

> just a local/personal problem?

> Sorry again, for disturbing (the un-)SILENCE.

>

> Regards,

> Clemens Gresser

>

> C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de

> http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~cgresser

> -

> [Searchable Silence archives: http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]

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> [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the text "info silence" ]

>

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 15:32:46 EST

From: "Samantha Levin" <binnorie@hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] problems with lists (sorry for sending this via the list)


I only get messages twice when someone is responding to me. Sometimes they

forget to remove my individual address from the "TO" section. I end up

getting their message directly from them and through the silence list.


This may be pointless information that everyone experiences...


Samantha



>From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>

>To: Clemens Gresser <C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de>

>CC: Silence <Silence@lists.realtime.net>

>Subject: Re: [silence] problems with lists (sorry for sending this via the

>list)

>Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:26:23 -0600 (CST)

>MIME-Version: 1.0

>Received: from [205.238.128.216] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id

>MHotMailBA48C7E10081D82197E4CDEE80D8098D0; Fri Jan 14 11:45:37 2000

>Received: (qmail 14494 invoked by alias); 14 Jan 2000 19:38:13 -0000

>Received: (qmail 14490 invoked by alias); 14 Jan 2000 19:38:13 -0000

>Received: (qmail 21784 invoked by uid 201); 14 Jan 2000 19:38:10 -0000

>Received: (qmail 14478 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2000 19:38:05 -0000

>Received: from coherent.music.uiowa.edu (128.255.208.39) by

>mail2.realtime.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2000 19:38:05 -0000

>Received: by coherent.music.uiowa.edu (NX5.67g/NX3.0M)id AA27696; Fri, 14

>Jan 2000 14:26:24 -0600

>From owner-silence@lists.realtime.net Fri Jan 14 11:48:22 2000

>Delivered-To: silence-outgoing-outgoing@lists.bga.com

>Delivered-To: silence-outgoing@lists.bga.com

>Delivered-To: Silence@lists.realtime.net

>In-Reply-To: <E129CFF-0004iV-00@asturias.rz.uni-frankfurt.de>

>Message-Id:

><Pine.NXT.3.91.1000114142449.27675A-100000@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>

>Sender: owner-silence@lists.realtime.net

>Precedence: bulk

>

>Hello Clemens Gresser and Silence list members,

>

>I have had the same problem, but not consistently. Let's see what

>happens with this message.

>

>Lowell Cross

>

>

>On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Clemens Gresser wrote:

>

> > Dear list members!

> >

> > Sorry to bother the list about this:

> > In the last few days I keep receiving most messages from

> > SILENCE twice. Does this happen to anybody else or is this

> > just a local/personal problem?

> > Sorry again, for disturbing (the un-)SILENCE.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Clemens Gresser

> >

> > C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de

> > http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~cgresser

> > -

> > [Searchable Silence archives:

>http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]

> > [How to join, unsubscribe, etc:

>http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]

> > [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the text "info silence"

>]

> >

>-

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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 05:01:37 -0700 (MST)

From: Christopher Shultis <cshultis@unm.edu>

Subject: Re: [silence] introduction


Dear Silencers,


A somewhat belated response to Josef's words of introduction only to draw

attention of the list to the excellent dissertation written by the person

whom I am certain is teaching the course on Cage he is presently taking.


Her name is Amy Beal and the dissertation is: "Patronage and Reception

History of American Experimental Music in West Germany: 1945-1986." This

academic-sounding title (it is, after all a dissertation!) may seem to be

only of interest to specialists, but I would really encourage readers of

this list to consider ordering a copy from University Microfilms. I don't

know the number but I'm sure author/title info would locate the work.


It reads almost like a detective novel, although with a lot more footnotes

and appendices, telling a very, very interesting story: why is it that

while composers of the so-called "experimental tradition" were being

completely ignored in the states for the most part, they achieved such

legendary status in Germany, as well as getting the opportunity of

commisions for some of their most important work. Those of you familiar

with Cage know, for example, how involved German radio was in supporting

so much of Cage's later work including, especially, his masterpiece

"Roaratorio." Why him and not Copland, on the conservative side, or

Babbitt, on the academic side--and in the latter case especially after

Cage being so famously ostracized by the Neue Musik community after his

appearance at "serialist" Darmstadt in 1958 (and not to return again until

1990)?


I'm living in Germany right in the thick of where much of that history

occurred and still see and hear the resonances of it daily. But it is a

story that not everyone knows, especially in the states, and it is a story

well told by somebody who has both talked to many (if not all) the

protagonists and looked at the primary sources that then back the stories

up.


What Amy Beal has written, in other words, is not just great

scholarship--it's a great read! I highly recommend it to all my

distinguished colleagues and friends on the silence list.


Best regards,



Chris Shultis

Anglistisches Seminar

Universitaet Heidelberg



On Wed, 12 Jan 2000, [jk] ishovi wrote:


> hello everyone!

> My name is josef kijewski

> I'm a student at Bates College in Lewiston, Maine

> and apart from having developed a deep interest in cage within the last year

> [although knowing almost nothing to substantiate that interest]

> I have enrolled in a class here specifically about him.

> I've also [obviously] signed up here

> for the purpose of reading what goes on

> and also participating as I can.


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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:31:45 -0800

From: abeal@abacus.bates.edu

Subject: Re: [silence] introduction


Many thanks, Chris, for the kind words. I'm delighted to know that my

research might be useful (and/or interesting!) for Silencers.


At 05:01 AM 1/18/00 -0700, Christopher Shultis wrote:

>Dear Silencers,

>

>A somewhat belated response to Josef's words of introduction only to draw

>attention of the list to the excellent dissertation written by the person

>whom I am certain is teaching the course on Cage he is presently taking.

>

>Her name is Amy Beal and the dissertation is: "Patronage and Reception

>History of American Experimental Music in West Germany: 1945-1986." This

>academic-sounding title (it is, after all a dissertation!) may seem to be

>only of interest to specialists, but I would really encourage readers of

>this list to consider ordering a copy from University Microfilms. I don't

>know the number but I'm sure author/title info would locate the work.

>

>It reads almost like a detective novel, although with a lot more footnotes

>and appendices, telling a very, very interesting story: why is it that

>while composers of the so-called "experimental tradition" were being

>completely ignored in the states for the most part, they achieved such

>legendary status in Germany, as well as getting the opportunity of

>commisions for some of their most important work. Those of you familiar

>with Cage know, for example, how involved German radio was in supporting

>so much of Cage's later work including, especially, his masterpiece

>"Roaratorio." Why him and not Copland, on the conservative side, or

>Babbitt, on the academic side--and in the latter case especially after

>Cage being so famously ostracized by the Neue Musik community after his

>appearance at "serialist" Darmstadt in 1958 (and not to return again until

>1990)?

>

>I'm living in Germany right in the thick of where much of that history

>occurred and still see and hear the resonances of it daily. But it is a

>story that not everyone knows, especially in the states, and it is a story

>well told by somebody who has both talked to many (if not all) the

>protagonists and looked at the primary sources that then back the stories

>up.

>

>What Amy Beal has written, in other words, is not just great

>scholarship--it's a great read! I highly recommend it to all my

>distinguished colleagues and friends on the silence list.

>

>Best regards,

>

>

>Chris Shultis

>Anglistisches Seminar

>Universitaet Heidelberg

>

>

>On Wed, 12 Jan 2000, [jk] ishovi wrote:

>

>> hello everyone!

>> My name is josef kijewski

>> I'm a student at Bates College in Lewiston, Maine

>> and apart from having developed a deep interest in cage within the last

year

>> [although knowing almost nothing to substantiate that interest]

>> I have enrolled in a class here specifically about him.

>> I've also [obviously] signed up here

>> for the purpose of reading what goes on

>> and also participating as I can.

>

>-

>[Searchable Silence archives: http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]

>[How to join, unsubscribe, etc: http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]

>[ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the text "info silence" ]

>

>


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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:14:41 +0100

From: Ingvar Loco Nordin <loco.nordin@mbox200.swipnet.se>

Subject: [silence] mode 20


Got the mode Cage series no 20 the other day (the new double CD where=20

Cage reads himself and Jasper Johns) Have you heard it yet? Never=20

heard Cage so vibrant, so intense, so close up. He's right there in=20

your room!


Loco

=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=

=9E

All places are here! All times are now!

=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=9E=

=9E

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:01:42 EST

From: "T. Ankersmit" <t_ankersmit@hotmail.com>

Subject: [silence] kosugi texts/hear


looking for writings/publications by/about takehisa kosugi, and the current

address for the hear soundart foundation.


thanks in advance,

thomas ankersmit.

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:54:02 -0500 (EST)

From: kos <kos@bway.net>

Subject: [silence] FW: Getty Library Research Grants (fwd)


I've forgotten if this appeared on the list, but in case it hasn't, I'm

sure it'll be of interest. -- Bob Kosovsky


______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________


GETTY LIBRARY RESEARCH GRANTS 2000


In anticipation of an international symposium to take place in May, 2001,

entitled "The Art of David Tudor: Indeterminacy and Performance in Postwar

Culture", the Getty Research Institute will award six grants for research on

the GRI's David Tudor Papers and related archival collections. Recipients

shall explore Tudor's methods of composition and performance and investigate

the legacy of his work within contemporary art, dance, and music.

Detailed instructions, application forms, and additional information are

available online at http://www.getty.edu/gri/research/grants.htm. Send

inquiries, or mail application materials to:

Nancy Perloff, Collections Curator

Getty Research Library

1200 Getty Center Drive, Suite 1100

Los Angeles, CA 90049-1688

Fax: (310) 440-7779

E-mail: davidtudorgrants@getty.edu


Special deadline for Tudor grant applications: April 1, 2000. Library

Research Grants applicants will be notified of grant decisions by May 1,

2000.


*************************************************************************

To leave MLA-L, send the command SIGNOFF MLA-L to

LISTSERV@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU or send an e-mail message to

MLA-L-request@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU. To suspend mail temporarily, send the

command SET MLA-L NOMAIL to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU.


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:00:41 +0100

From: Clemens Gresser <C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de>

Subject: [silence] Boulez - Cage: radio speech of Boulez?


Dear Silencers,


I am currently working on the relationship between Cage and the

Western tradition and came across the following lines:


"1954: [...]

Cage meets Boulez again in Paris. In this year their

correspondence stops. 16 years later on French radio Boulez will

give an artistic reason for this, in which he distances himself from

Cage's musical development in the 50s."

[my translation of John Cage. Anarchic Harmony, ed. by Stefan

Schddler & Walter Zimmermann, Mainz (Schott) 1992, p. 313;

(book for the Frankfurt Feste '92/Alte Oper Frankfurt)]


German is as follows:

"1954: [...]

In Paris trifft Cage erneut Boulez. In diesem Jahr bricht der

Briefwechsel zwischen den beiden ab. Boulez wird 16 Jahre

spaeter am franzoesischen Radio eine kuenstlerische

Begruendung dafuer liefern, in der er sich von Cages musikalischer

Entwicklung in den 50er Jahren distanzierte."


Even though one can _imagine_ what Boulez would not have liked

about Cage's musical development in the 50s, it would be nice to

have this radio speech and to have "hard evidence". Does anybody

know if it was printed somewhere?

Maybe there is a reference in the published correspondence by

Nattiez (unfortunately, the book is on loan so I cannot have a look

myself, but I need to find this out fairly urgently!)?


Any help would be highly appreciated.

Cheers

Clemens

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:45:47 -0500

From: Louis Goldstein <louieg@wfu.edu>

Subject: [silence] Four3


Hello Silence List,


I am preparing a performance of Four3 for a program on February 1. The

instructions are written in Cage's usual stimulating "ambiguese." Does anyone

here know this piece? It might be interesting to compare possible interpretations

of the performance instructions. I will post them to the list, if this is of

general interest.


Best to all,


Louie


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:27:30 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Four3


On Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 11:45:47AM -0500, Louis Goldstein wrote:

> Hello Silence List,

>

> I am preparing a performance of Four3 for a program on February 1. The

> instructions are written in Cage's usual stimulating "ambiguese." Does anyone

> here know this piece? It might be interesting to compare possible interpretations

> of the performance instructions. I will post them to the list, if this is of

> general interest.


I'd be quite interested. We've done Four6, and have found some interesting

differences of view of interpretation. I tend to find the instructions

become less ambiguous the more you look at them, but some ambiguities

remain.


- --

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------------------------------


End of silence-digest V1 #308

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silence-digest Thursday, February 3 2000 Volume 01 : Number 309





----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 04:01:28 +1100

From: "Chris Bieg" <CBieg@swin.edu.au>

Subject: [silence] Re: silence-digest V1 #308 (Christopher Bieg is on leave)


Christopher Bieg is currently on leave (somewhere in Eastern Europe) and

cannot accept any tasks / appointments. He will be back in early

February.


If you wish to contact him personally, try christopherbieg@netscape.com

and he might find time to reply.


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 09:10:12 -0800

From: mark and/or melissa <burzy@drizzle.com>

Subject: [silence] cage and duchamp


i saw a documentary on cage a while back and at one point they showed a clip of a chess match betwen

cage and duchamp...the two of them had set up a film camera above the game pointed at the board

etc...does anyone know if there is any video incarnation of this that i may be able to get my hands

on?...pal or ntsc, i can always have it converted

thanks,

mark schlipper

http://members.xoom.com/transients


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:43:31 -0600 (CST)

From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>

Subject: Re: [silence] cage and duchamp


Regarding the documentary, you might start with The John Cage Trust:

 

            666 Greenwich St. #416

            New York, NY 10014

             tel 212-807-0646

            fax 212-807-0443.


On a related topic, the publication date for _Leonardo Music Journal_ #9

has been delayed until March 2000 (it was originally announced for Dec.

1999). It is supposed to contain my article entitled "Reunion: John Cage,

Marcel Duchamp, Electronic Music, and Chess," with photos, diagrams,

etc., plus two excerpts from the 1968 performance on a CD accompanying

the publication.


Lowell Cross



On Fri, 21 Jan 2000, mark and/or melissa wrote:


> i saw a documentary on cage a while back and at one point they showed a clip of a chess match betwen

> cage and duchamp...the two of them had set up a film camera above the game pointed at the board

> etc...does anyone know if there is any video incarnation of this that i may be able to get my hands

> on?...pal or ntsc, i can always have it converted

> thanks,

> mark schlipper

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:28:27 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] cage and duchamp


On Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 09:10:12AM -0800, mark and/or melissa wrote:

> i saw a documentary on cage a while back and at one point they showed a clip of a chess match betwen

> cage and duchamp...the two of them had set up a film camera above the game pointed at the board

> etc...does anyone know if there is any video incarnation of this that i may be able to get my hands

> on?...pal or ntsc, i can always have it converted

> thanks,


You may be thinking of the chess game between Cage and Duchamp's widow,

with a chance-determined film being made of it, documented in the

video "I Have Nothing to Say and I am Saying It". The video (which is

quite good) is pretty widely available.


- --

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:12:39 +0100

From: np <rtoral@mail.telepac.pt>

Subject: [silence] how to unsubscribe?


Hi, sorry, but can someone remind me how to unsub silence?

Thanks a lot,


r



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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:20:52 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] how to unsubscribe?


On Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 06:12:39PM +0100, np wrote:

> Hi, sorry, but can someone remind me how to unsub silence?

> Thanks a lot,


The bottom of every message on the list points to the information:


> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc: http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]

> [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the text "info silence" ]


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:13:11 EST

From: Kriist@aol.com

Subject: [silence] leonardo music journal #9, (was cage and duchamp)


do they have a web page?

id love to order that issue(or subscribe for hta tmatter)


thanks


rodrigo


> On a related topic, the publication date for _Leonardo Music Journal_ #9

> has been delayed until March 2000 (it was originally announced for Dec.

> 1999). It is supposed to contain my article entitled "Reunion: John Cage,

> Marcel Duchamp, Electronic Music, and Chess," with photos, diagrams,

> etc., plus two excerpts from the 1968 performance on a CD accompanying

> the publication.

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:40:16 -0500

From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com>

Subject: [silence] John Zorn, editor of Arcana: Musicians on Music


Thought this may be of interest to readers of this list (self-promotion

regrettable, but unavoidable...)


Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 14:58:14 -0500

From: Steve Clay <sclay@granarybooks.com>

Subject: PROMO: John Zorn, editor of Arcana: Musicians on Music

 


Arcana: Musicians on Music

Edited by John Zorn



Answering a need for critical attention towards experimental and

avant-garde music, Arcana is a ground-breaking work as far-ranging and

dynamic as the current generation of musicians. Through manifestoes,

scores, interviews, notes and critical papers, performer/composers

address composing, playing, improvising, teaching, and thinking in and

through music. Rather than an attempt to distill or define musicians'

work, Arcana illuminates with personal vision and experience. Arcana is

a remarkable book-challenging and original-essential for composers,

musicans, theorists and fans alike.



"Arcana is a vibrant testimony to the continuing vitality of new music.

These exciting young composers are as idiosyncratic and eloquent with

words as they are with music."

                                    -Meredith Monk. Composer / Singer


"Arcana, edited by John Zorn, is filled with writings by musicians from

all over the musical map. Interested in the sampling, deconstruction

and reconstruction of pop hooks? The historical sociobiology of the

downtown music scene? An American's reaction to the study of Gagaku?

Extended contrabass techniques? A savvy take on ear plugs, amplifier

distortion and pain? This is the book you've been looking for."


                                    -Steve Reich. Composer / Performer


Contributors


Chris Brown, Anthony Coleman, Marilyn Crispell, Mark Dresser,

Stephen Drury, Bill Frisell, Fred Frith, Peter Garland,

Gerry Hemingway, Scott Johnson, Eyvind Kang, Guy Klucevsek,

George Lewis David Mahler, Miya Masaoka, Myra Melford,

Ikue Mori, Larry Ochs, Bob Ostertag, John Oswald, Mike Patton,

Marc Ribot, David Rosenboom, John Schott, Elliott Sharp,

David Shea, Frances-Marie Uitti, Lois V Vierk, Z'EV, and

John Zorn



380pp. illustrated. Contains a discography.

Should start showing up in bookstores about Feb., 1, 00

ISBN 1-887123-27-X

$24.95

Publisher: Granary Books / Hips Road


Further information at

http://www.granarybooks.com


Available at better bookstores, our primary distributor D.A.P.

(1-800-338-BOOK), SPD in Berkeley, or direct from the publisher

(orders@granarybooks.com).


- --steve


http://www.stephendrury.com


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------------------------------


Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 09:43:54 EST

From: KULTBOX@aol.com

Subject: [silence] Cage/ Chicago Reader


Crew-


This pop'ed up in the Chicago Reader this week...


http://www.chireader.com/hitsville/000121.html


- -r

kultbox records chicago

www.kultbox.com

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------------------------------


Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:01:51 -0500

From: David Beardsley <xouoxno@virtulink.com>

Subject: [silence] Winter concerts at the Dream House


MELA presents


Sundays in the Dream House


Two Memorial Concerts

Two of history's most important and yet to be understood composers


Richard Maxfield (1927 - 69)


Live and interactive tape music by one of America's first

electronic music composers and teachers.


January 23, 2000, 4 pm

Program includes:

 

Perspectives for La Monte Young (1961-62), performed by La Monte Young,

contrabass and Charles Curtis,

cello, with pre-recorded electronically manipulated live performance by

La Monte Young on stringed

instruments.

 

Piano Concert for David Tudor (1961) performed by Joseph Kubera,

Steinway grand piano.

 

Selected electronic works

 

*


Terry Jennings (1940 - 81)


Compositions for piano and strings by one of the

founders of minimalist keyboard music

January 30, 2000, 4 pm


Performed by


Charles Curtis, cello

Joseph Kubera, piano

Michael Schumacher, piano

La Monte Young, piano

 

Steinway Concert Grand provided courtesy Michael Schumacher


Admission $18 / 14 MELA members


MELA Foundation

275 Church Street, New York, NY 10013

212-925-8270


More information as it becomes available at

http://www.lamonteyoung.com


MELA's programs are made possible with public funds

from the New York State Council on the Arts, a State Agency.



- --

* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y

* xouoxno@virtulink.com

*

* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"

* M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor

*

* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

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------------------------------


Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:46:14 -0600

From: Brian Brock <btbrock@execpc.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage is happy


The Chicago Reader article contains a characteristically beaming photo of

Cage. Was he always this happy, or did he just enjoy being photographed? A

mind and life such as his would surely be gratifying - but it's rare to see

so many photos of someone so ecstatic. Is this something that anyone can

explain? Any anecdotes or quotes would be especially appreciated.


Brian


KULTBOX@aol.com wrote:


> Crew-

>

> This pop'ed up in the Chicago Reader this week...

>

> http://www.chireader.com/hitsville/000121.html

>

> -r

> kultbox records chicago

> www.kultbox.com


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------------------------------


Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:40:25 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] Mills College Conference, 1995


I wonder if anyone knows if any of the

papers from the Mills College Cage Conference

in 1995 are in press, either in the form

of a conference proceedings or in various

journals. It seems to me that Chris Shultis's

paper on Cage and Thoreau did appear recently.

And in recent personal e-mail to me recently

Chris alluded to a paper by David Bernstein

on Cage and Schoenberg that I'd love to

see. There are couple of other ones that

looked great, too. If anyone (Chris?) knows

of plans to publish the other papers, please

let me know. Thanks.


Thanks!

Rob


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

http://im.yahoo.com

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------------------------------


Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:07:43 -0800 (PST)

From: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Mills College Conference, 1995


Rob Haskins writes:


> I wonder if anyone knows if any of the

> papers from the Mills College Cage Conference

> in 1995 are in press, either in the form

> of a conference proceedings or in various


I was doing some research over at Mills about a month ago, and although I

missed seeing David Bernstein, he emailed me later that he'd just finished

a book containing essays from the Here Comes Everybody conference, and

that it should be out next fall. I don't know anything else about it,

but will check with him regarding publisher, etc.


- --Eric

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------------------------------


Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:04:10 -0500

From: Thomas Moore <tmoore@umbc.edu>

Subject: Re: [silence] leonardo music journal #9, (was cage and duchamp)


Kriist@aol.com wrote:


> do they have a web page?

> id love to order that issue(or subscribe for hta tmatter)

> thanks

> rodrigo


Rodrigo,


There are two of them:

http://mitpress.mit.edu/e-journals/Leonardo/lmj/sound.html

and

http://mitpress.mit.edu/journal-home.tcl?issn=09611215


Regards,

Tom Moore


- --


Thomas Moore

Director, Arts and Culture

UMBC

1000 Hilltop Circle

Baltimore, MD 21250

Phone: 410-455-3370

Fax: 410-455-1151

Email: tmoore@umbc.edu

WWW: http://www.umbc.edu/

       http://research.umbc.edu/~tmoore/music.html

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------------------------------


Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:58:43 -0700

From: Larry Solomon <solo@azstarnet.com>

Subject: [silence] Tucson Cage gig


I am looking for an ensemble that can travel to Tucson to give a

possible concert of new music, preferably not minimal, containing works

by Cage and other experimentalists. Please respond privately.

- --


Cheers,


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Larry J Solomon

The Center for the Arts, Pima College, Tucson, AZ 85709-0015

solo@azstarnet.com

Solomon's Music Theory & Composition Resources:

http://www.AzStarNet.com/~solo

Introduction to Music Theory Webcourse:

http://community.cc.pima.edu/classes/mus102/


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:16:43 -0800 (PST)

From: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Mills College Conference, 1995


Hi everyone,


Following up, David Bernstein sent this along:


- --Eric


> The title of the book will be "Writings through John Cage's Music, Poetry,

> and Art." It will be published by the University of Chicago Press in Fall

> 2000. Here is the table of contents:

>

> Table of Contents

>

> Acknowledgements

>

> Introduction

>         David W. Bernstein

>

> "In Order to Thicken the Plot": Toward a Critical Reception of Cages Music

>         David W. Bernstein

>

> Cages Queer Silence or How to Avoid Making Matters Worse

>         Jonathan Katz

>

> The Intent of the Musical Moment: Cage and the Transpersonal

>         Austin Clarkson

>

> Cage as Performer

>         Gordon Mumma

>

> As Time Passes

>         Deborah Campana

>

> David Tudor and the Solo for Piano

>         John Holzaepfel

>

> Here Comes Everything

>         Paul van Emmerik

>

> Panel Discussion: Cages Influence

> (Gordon Mumma, Allan Kaprow, Christian Wolff, James Tenney, Maryanne

> Amacher, and Alvin Curran)

>

> Panel Discussion: Cage and the Computer

> (James Pritchett, Andrew Culver, James Tenney, and Frances White)

>

> Cages Writings up to the 1980s

>         Jackson Mac Low

>

> Cage and the Structure of Chance

>         Constance Lewalllen

>

> Diary: Cages Mountain Lake Workshop, April 8-15, 1990

>         Ray Kass

>

> The Making of Cages One11

>         Henning Lohner

>

> Contributors Biographies

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:45:45 -0500

From: Myron Bennett <mcbennett@fuse.net>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage is happy


On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:46:14 -0600, Brian Brock wrote:


>The Chicago Reader article contains a characteristically beaming photo =

of

>Cage. Was he always this happy, or did he just enjoy being photographed?=

 A

>mind and life such as his would surely be gratifying - but it's rare to =

see

>so many photos of someone so ecstatic. Is this something that anyone can

>explain? Any anecdotes or quotes would be especially appreciated.

>

>Brian

Seeing as how no one else has had anything to say about this, I'll

throw in my two cents worth. I just double checked a photo of him

from the time I knew him best, late 60s early 70s, and he is gently

smiling, thoughtfully. This is typical too.

Is it in Silence, or A Year From Monday that John says something like,

"I was born with a naturally sunny disposition." I think that

contributes to the smiles and the happiness, but from my experiences

with him, his smiles of delight came often, because an idea, a sound,

a sight would make him smile, or laugh in appreciation. Largely

because he would notice things that most of us don't. (After knowing

him a while, I found that I noticed more things, and that seeing a sky

full of clouds with no pattern was perhaps more interesting than

seeing clouds that looked like something.)

So I think he smiled a lot because he found a lot of things that

delighted him.


- --

 Myron Bennett mcbennett@fuse.net

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:07:22 +0100

From: Neil.MCKETT-GNB@st.com

Subject: [silence] Sonic humour


Regarding Cage's sunny disposition I myself find that certain sounds are

amusing or delightful. In extreme cases I have been reduced to tears of

laughter by some unassuming noise. Indeed this once happened when I went

to see some guy about a band and he played me one of his songs and half

way through the intro some 'chimes' came in and it was more than I could

bear.


Some intentionally funny pieces work and others don't. A sad fact of

modern life seems to be that 'funny' is bad or 'strange' and 'strange is

bad'. Were fewer people deperate for a 'normal' existence then perhaps

they might rediscover that 'funny is good' and 'strange is good'. Music

us too wonderful to be taken 'serious'ly.


Cheers


Neil McKett

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:27:09 -0800

From: cuica@interworld.net

Subject: [silence] Four Walls


Hello all,


I've been away from the list for about a year, writing, playing, traveling.

Back now and wondering if anyone is familiar with a recording of "Four

Walls" by John McAlpine, piano and Beth Griffith, voice on the Largo

Records label. Any thoughts or opinions about the performance, label,

artists, or piece??


Bruce.



AXE'

cuica@interworld.net



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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:55:19 +0100

From: Tim Ovens <ovens@hmt-hannover.de>

Subject: [silence] zoomoozophone


Hi all!


I am still working on a Cage CD-ROM and have some questions:


What is a zoomoozophone??!!

Who knows if there are more Cagey recipes besides those ones in

Kostelanetz' Cage anthology?


Thanks for help!


Tim



__________________________________________________

Tim Ovens

Pianist

Staatliche Hochschule fⁿr Musik und Theater Hannover


e-mail: ovens@hmt-hannover.de

website: http://www.mwserv.de/timovens



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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:01:44 +0000

From: "Patrick Perratt" <p.perratt@vam.ac.uk>

Subject: Re: [silence] zoomoozophone


The zoomoozophone is an instrument invented by Dean Drummond of Newband, =

influenced by the inventions of Harry Partch. It consists of a number of =

suspended aluminium tubes, tuned microtonally. A full description can be =

found at the Newband homepage:


http://www.spyral.net/newband/zoomprimer.htm


This site is well worth a visit for its information on Partch and his =

instruments.


Patrick


>>> Tim Ovens <ovens@hmt-hannover.de> 01/27 11:55 am >>>

Hi all!


I am still working on a Cage CD-ROM and have some questions:


What is a zoomoozophone??!!

Who knows if there are more Cagey recipes besides those ones in

Kostelanetz' Cage anthology?


Thanks for help!


Tim



__________________________________________________

Tim Ovens

Pianist

Staatliche Hochschule f=FCr Musik und Theater Hannover


e-mail: ovens@hmt-hannover.de=20

website: http://www.mwserv.de/timovens=20



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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:28:39 -0800

From: bedwellm@WellsFargo.COM

Subject: [silence] Interesting


THE SOUND OF CHAOS - Discovery Communications Inc.


  http://www.discovery.com/stories/technology/fractals/fractals.html


  "Those who hear fractal music for the first time find it hard

  to describe... otherworldly, bizarre, fantastic. It's part of

  a fractal universe - full of startling sights and sounds."

  Contents include:


   - The Music Makers - How do they do it and why?

   - Create Your Own Chaos

   - Fantastic Voyage - Enter a fractal image

   - Hear What You See

   - A Fractal World - See and hear fractal sights and sounds


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:57:59 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] A glass of chilly reality


I recently received a forward describing NPR's

most important 100 American pieces of the 20th

century. I reproduce their description of "most

important":


Here's our definition of "most important": By virtue

of its achievement, beauty, or excellence, the work is

an important milestone of American music in the 20th

century. It significantly changed the musical

landscape, opened new horizons, or in itself had a

major effect on American culture and civilization.


The 100 pieces were mostly musicals and popular

songs. I would argue about some of them fitting

the description of "most important". There

were 9 "classical" pieces. Some of the choices

are obvious; some very strange, I thought.

Since one piece is by Cage, I thought it

might be interesting to post here:


ADAGIO FOR STRINGS, SAMUEL BARBER (1938)


APPALACHIAN SPRING, AARON COPLAND (1944)


DRUMMING, STEVE REICH (1971)


4'33", JOHN CAGE (1952)


GRAND CANYON SUITE, FERDE GROFE (1931)


PSYCHO (film score), BERNARD HERRMANN (1960)


RHAPSODY IN BLUE, GEORGE GERSHWIN (1924); orchestrated

by FERDE GROFE (1924/1926/1942)


SYMPHONY OF PSALMS, IGOR STRAVINSKY (1930/1948)


WEST SIDE STORY (musical), words STEPHEN

SONDHEIM/music LEONARD BERNSTEIN (1957)


Rob


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:18:16 -0500

From: David Beardsley <xouoxno@virtulink.com>

Subject: [silence] 49/32 Radio Jan. archives up


49/32 Radio

"All microtonal music. All the time"

the worlds first all microtonal streaming audio program


January 2000 archived programs are now up:


http://www.virtulink.com/immp/jux/j_index.htm#events


Recent programs have featured:


James Pokorny, Acama, Tibetan Temple Bells, Johnny Reinhard,

Banda Polyphony, Central African Republic, Kenta Nagai and

Tatsuya Nakatani, Terry Riley, Easley Blackwood, Ivor Darreg,

John Starrett, Ernie Crews, Neil Haverstick, Jon Catler Group,

Steel Blue, and Birdhouse.


- --

* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y

* xouoxno@virtulink.com

*

* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"

* M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor

*

* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

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------------------------------


Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:58:10 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: [silence] Cage Documentary at the National Gallery


The National Gallery films page at http://www.nga.gov/programs/filmart.htm

is listing the following:


John Cage: I Have Nothing To Say And I Am Saying It

9, 10, 11, 13 February at 12:30

Artist/musician John

Cage's lasting influence on twentieth-century thought and aesthetics is the

subject of this documentary survey made for American Masters.

(Allan Miller, 1990, 55 minutes).


It will be shown in the auditorium of the National Gallery's East

Building, 4th Street at Constitution Avenue N.W. in Washington DC.

There is no charge for admission. Seating for all events is on a

first-come, first-served basis.

For program information call (202) 842-6799.


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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 06:30:01 -0500

From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com>

Subject: [silence] upcoming concerts in Boston


For those in the Boston area:

"Cartridge Music" by John Cage, and "Dark River" for four amplified bass

drums, by John Zorn, along with improvisations by nmperign (Bhob Rainey and

Greg Kelley) - subtle, delicate, and freakin' weird.

8pm, Monday February 7, Brown Hall, New England Conservatory, 290 Huntington

Ave. Free.


also of interest:

music for banjo, pipa, guitar, and others by George Crumb, David Leisner and

Paul Elwood

featuring Min Xiao-Fen, pipa, David Leisner, guitar, Paul Elwood, banjo,

Stephen Drury, piano

8pm, Tuesday February 15, Jordan Hall, New England Conservatory, 290

Huntington Ave. Free.


- --steve


http://www.stephendrury.com


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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:22:27 -0500 (EST)

From: David P Miller <dpmiller@world.std.com>

Subject: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


We're beginning to prepare for a performance of _Variations IV_ at Mobius

in Boston, the last weekend in May. The Cage/Tudor realization is

relatively well-known through its recording on Everest (LP)/Legacy (CD).

However, I at least know nothing about how Cage and Tudor used the score

to create their realization. If anyone has any information on this first

(I believe) performance, or can point me to a good source, I'd be most

grateful. I'm particularly, though not exclusively, interested in how they

chose the recordings they used, in addition to the live-miked sound that

was incorporated.


Thanks in advance !


David

dpmiller@world.std.com


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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:18:53 -0800

From: Tim Song Jones <fodrjonz@ni.net>

Subject: [silence] Cage's birthplace?


Hi,

Does anyone know where Cage's exact birthplace is? And what was his

connection to Fontana, Calif?

Tim

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:33:02 -0000

From: "Clemens Gresser" <C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


On 1 Feb 00, at 12:22, David P Miller wrote:


[...]

> If anyone has any information on this first

> (I believe) performance, or can point me to a good source, I'd be most

> grateful. I'm particularly, though not exclusively, interested in how they

> chose the recordings they used, in addition to the live-miked sound that

> was incorporated.


Maybe, I am missing the point, but are you attempting an

"authentic" reconstruction of the first performance of Variations IV?

If so, I would say that this is probably the least thing Cage wanted

to happen. As far as I always understood this piece - and most of

his oeuvre - it is that it should be improvised.


Some members of this list might argue with me, but I believe that

the recordings are only giving us one possibility for _a_

performance. Therefore a recording of most of Cage's music is an

historical object - not the _"real"_ music, which ought to be

performed live and which ought to happen in the moment it is

performed.


Regards,

Clemens Gresser


cgresser@stud.uni-frankfurt.de

http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~cgresser

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:46:37 -0500 (EST)

From: David P Miller <dpmiller@world.std.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Clemens Gresser wrote:


> On 1 Feb 00, at 12:22, David P Miller wrote:

>

> [...]

> > If anyone has any information on this first

> > (I believe) performance, or can point me to a good source, I'd be most

> > grateful. I'm particularly, though not exclusively, interested in how they

> > chose the recordings they used, in addition to the live-miked sound that

> > was incorporated.

>

> Maybe, I am missing the point, but are you attempting an

> "authentic" reconstruction of the first performance of Variations IV?


Thanks for asking -- briefly, the answer is no. Our realization will be

particular to our physical site and artists involved. I really am

interested, though, in their decision-making processes, particularly with

regard to their selection of recordings, since the score itself says

nothing about prepared music. It's pretty clear that there's a

disconnection between the recording and the score as artifacts of a

process. We're working from the score.


This is a matter of curiosity, primarily.


David

dpmiller@world.std.com


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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:54:43 -0500

From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


On Thu, Feb 3, 2000, Clemens Gresser <C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de> wrote:

>Maybe, I am missing the point, but are you attempting an

>"authentic" reconstruction of the first performance of Variations IV?

>If so, I would say that this is probably the least thing Cage wanted

>to happen. As far as I always understood this piece - and most of

>his oeuvre - it is that it should be improvised.

>

>Some members of this list might argue with me, but I believe that

>the recordings are only giving us one possibility for _a_

>performance. Therefore a recording of most of Cage's music is an

>historical object - not the _"real"_ music, which ought to be

>performed live and which ought to happen in the moment it is

>performed.


Clemens, you're correct in stating that David shouldn't be approaching

Variations IV as a 'reconstruction' of what came before. However, what

you're suggesting here is even more erroneous interpretation of the

score. The Variations series of pieces are *extremely* specific, very

detailed in their structure, and don't involve improvisation hardly at

all. Yes, they are built with chance operations and transparencies, but

this in no way means the material is to be improvised.


My suggestion would be to study the score and its instructions and make

your own conclusions on what Cage's instructions mean. These texts are

always meticulously crafted to give very detailed and specific

instructions, especially in the case of Variations * or Theatre Piece,

where the performer is required to create a score based on included materials.


Once you've formulated what YOU believe the right way to approach it is,

I would then look at how others approached it and how that compares to

what you've decided (I think that's actually what David meant when he

asked the question, but I wanted to make sure). The approach originally

taken by Cage and Tudor may or may not be relevant to how you as a

performer would do this piece, and Cage certainly wouldn't have wanted

anyone to just copy the way he originally constructed his own performance.


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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:09:30 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


- --- Clemens Gresser <C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de>

wrote:

> On 1 Feb 00, at 12:22, David P Miller wrote:

>

> [...]

> > If anyone has any information on this first

> > (I believe) performance, or can point me to a good

> source, I'd be most

> > grateful. I'm particularly, though not


 

> Maybe, I am missing the point, but are you

> attempting an

> "authentic" reconstruction of the first performance

> of Variations IV?

> If so, I would say that this is probably the least

> thing Cage wanted

> to happen. As far as I always understood this piece

> - and most of

> his oeuvre - it is that it should be improvised.


I'm really completely in the dark about this

last remark. Cage talks against improvisation

so many times--in the few pieces where he works

with improv., he does so with the express

purpose of creating a way in which the player

cannot improvise according to his/her taste.


All of the variations series have very detailed,

but ambiguous rules that clearly suggest there

are a number (but not an infinite number)

of possibilities to realize their performance.


I don't know if you remember the dialogue on

Variations III, Clemens, but you could see

Stephen Drury, <stevedrury@mindspring.com> "Re:

[silence] cage variations II and III," 15 September

1999, <silence@lists.realtime.net> via

<http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/text/silence1299.txt>

(4 January 2000). Also Rob Haskins,

<rob_haskins@yahoo.com> "[silence] Variations III Once

More (longish)," 31 October 1999

<silence@lists.realtime.net> via

<http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/text/silence1303.txt>

(4 January 2000) and its subsequent discussion there.


> Some members of this list might argue with me, but I

> believe that

> the recordings are only giving us one possibility

> for _a_

> performance. Therefore a recording of most of Cage's

> music is an

> historical object - not the _"real"_ music, which

> ought to be

> performed live and which ought to happen in the

> moment it is

> performed.


A recording is one document in a work's performance

history -- I think David had in mind listening

to the recording in that spirit, and not to

imitate it. In the case of Cage's pieces, those

performances are quite important in documenting

some of the possibilities and choices that

others have made.


Rob


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

http://im.yahoo.com

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------------------------------


End of silence-digest V1 #309

*****************************



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silence-digest Friday, February 4 2000 Volume 01 : Number 310





----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 12:26:08 -0500 (EST)

From: David P Miller <dpmiller@world.std.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Matthew Ross Davis wrote:


> Clemens, you're correct in stating that David shouldn't be approaching

> Variations IV as a 'reconstruction' of what came before.


[snip]


> Once you've formulated what YOU believe the right way to approach it is,

> I would then look at how others approached it and how that compares to

> what you've decided (I think that's actually what David meant when he

> asked the question, but I wanted to make sure).


You got it, that's what we're doing, thanks Matthew. Perhaps the original

question read too much like "Please inform me as to what the masters did

before I make a move," though I'm doubtful about that.


And just wait till we attempt the non-reconstruction of Variations V,

perhaps in another year, since the score consists largely of a description

of the event written after the fact!


So back to my question. Does anyone have any concrete information as to

how Cage and Tudor applied the score to their particular space, the

Feigen-Palmer Gallery in LA (I believe the name was), and especially the

means by which they selected and used recordings? We might not even use

recordings at all, by the way. But I'd genuinely like to know.


Thanks again --


David

dpmiller@world.std.com



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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 12:51:05 -0500

From: Glenn Freeman <glennf@grfn.org>

Subject: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal


That strikes ALL of Cage's "number pieces"...right? I would also go as far as to

suggest it also strikes a complete performance of the Freeman Etudes. Is there

musical discrimination/ignorance going on here? If so, Cage might have been upset

by this discrimination...


:(


Larry Solomon wrote:


"I am looking for an ensemble that can travel to Tucson to give a possible

concert of new music, preferably not minimal"

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:53:57 -0800 (PST)

From: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>

Subject: [silence] note on the archives


Hi all,


After seeing Rob's citations of some of the messages in the silence

archive, it occured to me that I better post something about the state

of the html archive. I was keeping it current through quarter 4 of

last year, but hypermail blew up the first time I ran it this year and

it took out q4 of last year.


I am assuming this is a genuine y2k problem.


I was traveling much of January and haven't had time to see if there's

a patch for it or to patch it myself. But I"m aware of the problem and

feeling guilty about it.


- --Eric

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:37:11 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


On Thu, Feb 03, 2000 at 12:26:08PM -0500, David P Miller wrote:

 

> So back to my question. Does anyone have any concrete information as to

> how Cage and Tudor applied the score to their particular space, the

> Feigen-Palmer Gallery in LA (I believe the name was), and especially the

> means by which they selected and used recordings? We might not even use

> recordings at all, by the way. But I'd genuinely like to know.


You've probably thought of this already, but: you might contact the

gallery, if it still exists. Someone there might remember some details,

know someone who would, or even have documentation of the event.


- --

|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|

| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:42:38 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal


On Thu, Feb 03, 2000 at 12:51:05PM -0500, Glenn Freeman wrote:

> That strikes ALL of Cage's "number pieces"...right? I would also go as far as to

> suggest it also strikes a complete performance of the Freeman Etudes. Is there

> musical discrimination/ignorance going on here? If so, Cage might have been upset

> by this discrimination...

>

> :(

>

> Larry Solomon wrote:

>

> "I am looking for an ensemble that can travel to Tucson to give a possible

> concert of new music, preferably not minimal"


I read this as meaning not (small-m) minimal, in the sense of spare use

of few items, but as (capital-M) Minimal, in terms of the style using

repetitive consonance. Thus, the might be seeking Feldman and Cage, but

not Adams or Glass.


But I might just be getting too Talmudic...


- --

|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|

| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:28:53 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] note on the archives


YOW! I want to cite those messages in

my dissertation!!! C9ould the problem

eventually affect the rest of the archive?


Rob


- --- "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com> wrote:

> Hi all,

>

> After seeing Rob's citations of some of the messages

> in the silence

> archive, it occured to me that I better post

> something about the state

> of the html archive. I was keeping it current

> through quarter 4 of

> last year, but hypermail blew up the first time I

> ran it this year and

> it took out q4 of last year.

>

> I am assuming this is a genuine y2k problem.

>

> I was traveling much of January and haven't had time

> to see if there's

> a patch for it or to patch it myself. But I"m aware

> of the problem and

> feeling guilty about it.

>

> --Eric

> -

> [Searchable Silence archives:

> http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]

> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc:

> http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]

> [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the

> text "info silence" ]

>


=====

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rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:30:54 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal


- --- Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 03, 2000 at 12:51:05PM -0500, Glenn

> Freeman wrote:

> > That strikes ALL of Cage's "number

> pieces"...right? I would also go as far as to

> > suggest it also strikes a complete performance of

> the Freeman Etudes. Is there

> > musical discrimination/ignorance going on here? If

> so, Cage might have been upset

> > by this discrimination...

> >

> > :(

> >

> > Larry Solomon wrote:

> >

> > "I am looking for an ensemble that can travel to

> Tucson to give a possible

> > concert of new music, preferably not minimal"

>

> I read this as meaning not (small-m) minimal, in the

> sense of spare use

> of few items, but as (capital-M) Minimal, in terms

> of the style using

> repetitive consonance. Thus, the might be seeking

> Feldman and Cage, but

> not Adams or Glass.


That's how I read it too--consonant, pulsed,

repetitive music. I love it but can understand

that not everyone shares that love.


Rob


=====

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rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:34:31 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


- --- Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> wrote:


> Clemens, you're correct in stating that David

> shouldn't be approaching

> Variations IV as a 'reconstruction' of what came

> before.


Why not? I know David isn't doing that,

but it wouldn't be much different from

what the performance practice movement

has done with Bach or Mozart? i would

be very interested in a reconstruction

of, say, _HPSCHD_--I'm sure it would be

satisfying musically and aesthetically.


I do think it's dangerous when we decide

what should and shouldn't be done in

a performance too quickly. I'm not

necessarily saying that Matthew is doing

that, but it's a question of great

interest to me.


Rob


Rob


> However, what

> you're suggesting here is even more erroneous

> interpretation of the

> score. The Variations series of pieces are

> *extremely* specific, very

> detailed in their structure, and don't involve

> improvisation hardly at

> all. Yes, they are built with chance operations and

> transparencies, but

> this in no way means the material is to be

> improvised.

>

> My suggestion would be to study the score and its

> instructions and make

> your own conclusions on what Cage's instructions

> mean. These texts are

> always meticulously crafted to give very detailed

> and specific

> instructions, especially in the case of Variations *

> or Theatre Piece,

> where the performer is required to create a score

> based on included materials.

>

> Once you've formulated what YOU believe the right

> way to approach it is,

> I would then look at how others approached it and

> how that compares to

> what you've decided (I think that's actually what

> David meant when he

> asked the question, but I wanted to make sure). The

> approach originally

> taken by Cage and Tudor may or may not be relevant

> to how you as a

> performer would do this piece, and Cage certainly

> wouldn't have wanted

> anyone to just copy the way he originally

> constructed his own performance.

>

> --

> | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |

> | | | | | | | | |

> | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d -

> a - v - i - s | |

> | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | | | |

> | | | | | | | | |

> | | http://www.metatronpress.com |

> http://www.artswire.org/comma | |

> | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |

> | | | | | | | | |

>

> -

> [Searchable Silence archives:

> http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]

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> http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]

> [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the

> text "info silence" ]

>


=====

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rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:38:29 -0800 (PST)

From: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] note on the archives


Rob Haskins writes:


> YOW! I want to cite those messages in

> my dissertation!!! C9ould the problem

> eventually affect the rest of the archive?


Whoa whoa whoa!


For one thing, you're citing the TEXT versions of the majordomo digests.

Those aren't going anywhere, aren't affected by this problem, and are

up to date and indexed.


The problem comes when breaking up the digests into individual messages,

adding some hypertext markup to them, and threading them via hypermail,

and that's the HTML version. The advantage of that version is that you

could aim people directly to an individual message.


Joseph's sent me a pointer to some recent work on hypermail, which I

wasn't aware of; I thought it was an piece of software orphaned by the

demise of eit.com.


- --Eric

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 12:32:35 -0700

From: Larry Solomon <solo@azstarnet.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal


Glenn Freeman wrote:

>

> That strikes ALL of Cage's "number pieces"...right? I would also go as far as to

> suggest it also strikes a complete performance of the Freeman Etudes. Is there

> musical discrimination/ignorance going on here? If so, Cage might have been upset

> by this discrimination...

>

> :(


I think that this is jumping to unfair conclusions. We've had quite a

number of minimal music concerts here in recent years. We are simply

trying to balance this with other types of new music. Also, we are

seeking a variety, rather than say a whole concert of one or two pieces.

So, some short minimal works could be included.

- --


Cheers,


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Larry J Solomon

The Center for the Arts, Pima College

2202 West Anklam Road, Tucson, AZ 85709-0015

Solomon's Music Theory & Composition Resources:

http://www.AzStarNet.com/~solo

Introduction to Music Theory Webcourse:

http://community.cc.pima.edu/classes/mus102/


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:40:57 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] note on the archives


- --- "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com> wrote:

> Rob Haskins writes:

>

> > YOW! I want to cite those messages in

> Whoa whoa whoa!

>

> For one thing, you're citing the TEXT versions of

> the majordomo digests.

> Those aren't going anywhere, aren't affected by this

> problem, and are

> up to date and indexed.


Good. Yeah, I tried the hypertext version

proably after January and found

them completely unuseable. I'm

a "no bells and whistles" kind of guy.

I'm just learning to use transparencies.

:)


Rob


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 14:41:29 -0500

From: Glenn Evans <gevans@mail.hall.public.lib.ga.us>

Subject: [silence] Cage's Birthplace


Message to Tim Song Jones--

         Cage was born in Los Angeles CA 9/5/1912 ------his connection

to Fontana CA is that he lived there (during composition of "Fontana

Mix").....this info is off the top of my head...may I refer you to an

excellent biography published recently (within a few years)... The

Roaring Silence:John Cage:a life

by David Revill.......very detailed--it even lists addresses.....a good

read.


Snave Evans


<Nichi nichi kore ko nichi>

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 15:05:04 -0500

From: Glenn Evans <gevans@mail.hall.public.lib.ga.us>

Subject: [silence] Cage/Duchamp chess game


Message to Mark Schlipper:

         The film in question is currently playing at the Whitney Museum

in NY through Feb 13 2000 as part of the American Century 1950-2000

exhibit......as well as some other interviews on tape and the score of

"Water Music" which is really quite lovely to see up close in

person....Hurry! only 10 days left!


Snave Evans


<Nichi nichi kore ko nichi>

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 15:05:14 -0600 (CST)

From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


As one who performed in Variations IV with Cage and Tudor, I can testify

that there was indeed "improvisation" going on -- depending, of course,

upon one's definition of the term.


In particular, the activities of David Tudor in performances of

Variations IV and similar works were "independent" of score materials

(transparencies, etc.) or instructions. In spite of his formidable

powers of memorization, I am sure that DT did not even try to commit to

memory any of the "variables" within the range of possibilities in those

Variations performances, and then proceeded to accomplish his performance

tasks out of that memory. In reality, he appeared at the concert venue,

unpacked his electronic gadgets, set them up, and expected (hoped?) that

they would be operational at the start of the performance.


He then proceeded to *improvise* on his own equipment.


JC usually had a set of notes relating to what he planned to do, but if

DT referred to anything on paper (and he didn't with any predictability),

it would have been to consult a setup diagram of his gadgetry -- not

score materials.


David's activities were usually quite pragmatic -- and often on the verge

of crisis management (he was always in charge of the technical setup of

the equipment, with John hoping to "make himself useful"). One memorable

performance was at the University of Rochester (NOT sponsored by the

Eastman School of Music), in 1966 as I recall. David asked that I bring

my "Stirrer" with me to create the illusion of sound moving around the

audience (I was a graduate student at the University of Toronto then),

and John thought that it was a great idea. The use of such equipment is

not specified in the score instructions -- also as I recall. ;-)


After the performance, we were invited to Norman O. Brown's house. He

expressed his regret to John that "your equipment failed you" (i.e.,

the sound system with the ubiquitous cheap contact microphones). There

WAS a lot of 60/120/180/240 Hz hum and buzz that evening, but John just

took it (the hum & buzz) in his stride as well as Brown's remark. I did

ask JC on this occasion if he included hum in the range of "any and

all" sounds he that considered to be permissible in music. He grinned

and said, "It is the one sound that we try to avoid."


LC


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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 12:38:34 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


                   Lowell:




                                                              It

is stories like this that make this discussion group absolutely

GREAT! Rod


- --- Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu> wrote:

> As one who performed in Variations IV with Cage and Tudor, I

> can testify

> that there was indeed "improvisation" going on -- depending,

> of course,

> upon one's definition of the term...


=====

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http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html


Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 15:57:21 -0500

From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>

Subject: Re: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal


No, I don't think this applies to Cage's number pieces at all.


Larry, perhaps you can give some clarification as to what you mean by

"minimal"?


On Thu, Feb 3, 2000, Glenn Freeman <glennf@grfn.org> wrote:


>That strikes ALL of Cage's "number pieces"...right? I would also go as far as

>to

>suggest it also strikes a complete performance of the Freeman Etudes. Is

there

>musical discrimination/ignorance going on here? If so, Cage might have been

>upset

>by this discrimination...

>

>:(

>

>Larry Solomon wrote:

>

>"I am looking for an ensemble that can travel to Tucson to give a possible

>concert of new music, preferably not minimal"

>-

>[Searchable Silence archives: http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]

>[How to join, unsubscribe, etc: http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]

>[ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the text "info silence" ]

>



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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |

| | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | |

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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |


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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:26:18 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage's Birthplace


On Thu, Feb 03, 2000 at 02:41:29PM -0500, Glenn Evans wrote:


> Cage was born in Los Angeles CA 9/5/1912 ------his connection

> to Fontana CA is that he lived there (during composition of "Fontana

> Mix").....this info is off the top of my head...may I refer you to an

> excellent biography published recently (within a few years)... The

> Roaring Silence:John Cage:a life

> by David Revill.......very detailed--it even lists addresses.....a good

> read.


As a look through the archives will show, many have questioned the

information in The Roaring Silence. For solid Cage information, I'd

recommend James Pritchett's "The Music of John Cage". There's also

interesting information about his early years in "Composed in America",

a collection of papers about him from a few years back.


- --

|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|

| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |

| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |

| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 14:39:55 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage's Birthplace


I think Fontana refers to Italy. Didn't

he do Fontana Mix at the studio in Italy

that Berio ran? I'm almost positive of

this but not near any sources.


Rob


- --- Glenn Evans <gevans@mail.hall.public.lib.ga.us>

wrote:

> Message to Tim Song Jones--

> Cage was born in Los Angeles CA 9/5/1912

> ------his connection

> to Fontana CA is that he lived there (during

> composition of "Fontana

> Mix").....this info is off the top of my head...may

> I refer you to an

> excellent biography published recently (within a few

> years)... The

> Roaring Silence:John Cage:a life

> by David Revill.......very detailed--it even lists

> addresses.....a good

> read.

>

> Snave Evans

>

> <Nichi nichi kore ko nichi>

> -

> [Searchable Silence archives:

> http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]

> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc:

> http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]

> [ or email majordomo@lists.realtime.net with the

> text "info silence" ]

>


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 14:42:19 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


There's a world of difference, don't you think,

between David Tudor improvising and Joe Everyone

improvising. Which I think led Cage to the

"Music of Contingency" pieces to begin with.


- --- Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>

wrote:

> As one who performed in Variations IV with Cage and

> Tudor, I can testify

> that there was indeed "improvisation" going on --

> depending, of course,

> upon one's definition of the term.

>

> In particular, the activities of David Tudor in

> performances of

> Variations IV and similar works were "independent"

> of score materials

> (transparencies, etc.) or instructions. In spite of

> his formidable

> powers of memorization, I am sure that DT did not

> even try to commit to

> memory any of the "variables" within the range of

> possibilities in those

> Variations performances, and then proceeded to

> accomplish his performance

> tasks out of that memory. In reality, he appeared

> at the concert venue,

> unpacked his electronic gadgets, set them up, and

> expected (hoped?) that

> they would be operational at the start of the

> performance.

>

> He then proceeded to *improvise* on his own

> equipment.

>

> JC usually had a set of notes relating to what he

> planned to do, but if

> DT referred to anything on paper (and he didn't with

> any predictability),

> it would have been to consult a setup diagram of his

> gadgetry -- not

> score materials.

>

> David's activities were usually quite pragmatic --

> and often on the verge

> of crisis management (he was always in charge of the

> technical setup of

> the equipment, with John hoping to "make himself

> useful"). One memorable

> performance was at the University of Rochester (NOT

> sponsored by the

> Eastman School of Music), in 1966 as I recall.

> David asked that I bring

> my "Stirrer" with me to create the illusion of sound

> moving around the

> audience (I was a graduate student at the University

> of Toronto then),

> and John thought that it was a great idea. The use

> of such equipment is

> not specified in the score instructions -- also as I

> recall. ;-)

>

> After the performance, we were invited to Norman O.

> Brown's house. He

> expressed his regret to John that "your equipment

> failed you" (i.e.,

> the sound system with the ubiquitous cheap contact

> microphones). There

> WAS a lot of 60/120/180/240 Hz hum and buzz that

> evening, but John just

> took it (the hum & buzz) in his stride as well as

> Brown's remark. I did

> ask JC on this occasion if he included hum in the

> range of "any and

> all" sounds he that considered to be permissible in

> music. He grinned

> and said, "It is the one sound that we try to

> avoid."

>

> LC

>

>


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 15:05:32 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] Fontana Mix


- --- Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I think Fontana refers to Italy. Didn't

> he do Fontana Mix at the studio in Italy

> that Berio ran?


Actually it was named after his landlady: Signora Fontana. It

was originally going to be called "Performance Mix"


R2K


=====

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http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html


Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:01:28 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Fontana Mix


THanks Rod. From Pritchett:


_Music Walk_ and _TV K:oln_ had been composed

during the first leg of Cage's European tour

in the fall of 1958 His next major work,

_Fontana Mix_ (1958) was the product of the

next part of this tour, a three-month stay

in Italy Cage had been invited to Milan

[not Rome--sorry about that] by Luciano

Berio in order to create a work for magnetic

tape at the studio of the Milan Radio. . . .


then jp discusses the origin of the name,

as Rod reported it.


- --- Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com> wrote:

>

>

> --- Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > I think Fontana refers to Italy. Didn't

> > he do Fontana Mix at the studio in Italy

> > that Berio ran?

>

> Actually it was named after his landlady: Signora

> Fontana. It

> was originally going to be called "Performance Mix"

>

> R2K

>

> =====

> http://rostasi.8m.com

>

>

http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html

>

> Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is

> therefore of no use except when you have something

> particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of

> carrots. - John Cage

> __________________________________________________

> Do You Yahoo!?

> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

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>


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:17:27 +0100

From: "Daniel Wolf" <djwolf@snafu.de>

Subject: [silence] Cage's birthplace


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.


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The best place to check for this sort of information is in an article by =

Robert Stevenson in his Inter-American Music Journal. (Unfortunately, I =

don't have the exact reference in hand). Stevenson took the trouble to =

search LA phone directories and the like.=20


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information is in an article by Robert Stevenson in&nbsp;his =

Inter-American=20

Music Journal. (Unfortunately, I don't have the exact reference in =

hand).=20

Stevenson took the trouble to search LA phone directories and the like.=20

</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>


- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF6EA5.37AFF1C0--


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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:50:18 -0500 (EST)

From: David P Miller <dpmiller@world.std.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Rob Haskins wrote (in reply to Matthew's post):


> > Clemens, you're correct in stating that David

> > shouldn't be approaching

> > Variations IV as a 'reconstruction' of what came

> > before.

>

> Why not? I know David isn't doing that,

> but it wouldn't be much different from

> what the performance practice movement

> has done with Bach or Mozart? i would

> be very interested in a reconstruction

> of, say, _HPSCHD_--I'm sure it would be

> satisfying musically and aesthetically.


This actually is an interesting conversation that has emerged, tangent to

my original question. The reconstruction issue really will be something

when we at Mobius get to _Variations V_, as I hinted earlier. BTW, I

should put this all in a little more context. I have adopted this quixotic

project to work through the entire Variations cycle in order. Why? To see

what happens, to get an experiential sense of what sort of "cycle" it

really is -- esp. given that the pieces were written across 20 years, and

do mutate significantly in their explicit concerns and notational form.

We've already done the first two pieces, primarily in a concert in Sept.

1998 which featured multiple overlapping realizations.


Anyway, since the score for _Variations V_ is entirely written

documentation of a past event, with various gnomic expressions

interspersed, a real reconstruction would involve assembling the

personnel, such as Robert Moog and Merce Cunningham, who are named in the

score. That's outside my budget for sure! I am considering posing the

question to the people I work with, "If this were a description of a

multimedia event produced in 2002, what would that event be?" I have no

preconceptions as to the outcome.


David

dpmiller@world.std.com


P.S. The concert will be May 26-27. Save the dates if you're going to be

in a hundred-mile or so radius of Boston. ;-)



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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:59:41 -0500 (EST)

From: David P Miller <dpmiller@world.std.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


Lowell, thanks a million. I knew there was somebody on the list with some

direct knowledge! From what little I know about David Tudor, it doesn't

surprise me a lot that he'd basically come in, set up his rig, and take

off. Now, you may not have actually been privy to this aspect of things at

the time, but you know that the score does relate some minimal elements on

transparencies (two circles, seven dots) to a ground plan of the given

space in order to determine one or several patterns of sound sources. Did

Tudor work with a reading of the score to any extent -- either his own

reading or one that Cage provided, possibly? And (again) the prerecorded

sound that so dominates the Everest/Legacy recording, and gives the

impression of a pop art performance -- any notion as to how these were

selected and used?


Sorry if I'm being just too persistent on this --


David

dpmiller@world.std.com


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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:31:19 -0600 (CST)

From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, David P Miller wrote:


> Now, you may not have actually been privy to this aspect of things at

> the time, but you know that the score does relate some minimal elements on

> transparencies (two circles, seven dots) to a ground plan of the given

> space in order to determine one or several patterns of sound sources. Did

> Tudor work with a reading of the score to any extent -- either his own

> reading or one that Cage provided, possibly?


I'm sure that DT was familiar with the score and the transparencies. He

apparently just didn't feel the need to refer to those materials, before

or during an event, to proceed with his own contributions to the

performances of Variations IV -- or any of the other "Variations" pieces,

for that matter. I witnessed him in performances of Variations II, III,

IV, VI, and VII (at the "9 Evenings"), and this list is just off the top

of my head.


As I said, he essentially performed independently in those Cage concerts.


And -- his own "independent" performances, on his own collection of

custom-made electronic devices, during pieces "signed" by Cage (and

others), " ... led him to discover the means for producing his own

works." [See my biographical entry on DT in the E.P. Dutton _Dictionary

of Contemporary Music_, John Vinton, ed.]


> And (again) the prerecorded

> sound that so dominates the Everest/Legacy recording, and gives the

> impression of a pop art performance -- any notion as to how these were

> selected and used?

 

I need to see if I can find that recording before I offer an

interpretation.


LC



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------------------------------


End of silence-digest V1 #310

*****************************



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silence-digest Saturday, February 5 2000 Volume 01 : Number 311





----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:11:22 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage's birthplace


Three good articles on Cage's early years:


Stevenson, Robert. "John Cage on his 70th Birthday:

West Coast Background." _Inter-American Music Review_

5, no. 1 (Fall 1982): 3-17.


Michael Hicks, "Cage's Studies with Schoenberg,"

_American Music_ 8 (1990): 125-40.


Thomas J. Hines, "'Then Not Yet "Cage"': The Los

Angeles Years," in Marjorie Perloff and Charles

Junkerman, eds., _John Cage: Composed in America

(Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1994), 65-99.


For an interesting (but problematic) view

of some early Cage events from a feminist

perspective, see:


Catherine Parsons Smith, "Athena at the Manuscript

Club: John Cage and Mary Cary Moore," _Musical

Quarterly_ 79 (1995): 351-67.



And for a rare glimpse into the personality

of the young Cage as revealed in his own

correspondence, see:


Maureen Mary, "Letters: the Brief Love of John Cage

for Pauline Schindler, 1934-35," _Ex Tempore_ 8, no. 1

(Summer 1996): 1-26.



- --- Daniel Wolf <djwolf@snafu.de> wrote:

> The best place to check for this sort of information

> is in an article by Robert Stevenson in his

> Inter-American Music Journal. (Unfortunately, I

> don't have the exact reference in hand). Stevenson

> took the trouble to search LA phone directories and

> the like.

>


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

http://im.yahoo.com

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:42:30 -0500

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage's birthplace


On Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 12:17:27AM +0100, Daniel Wolf wrote:

> The best place to check for this sort of information is in an article by Robert Stevenson in his Inter-American Music Journal. (Unfortunately, I don't have the exact reference in hand). Stevenson took the trouble to search LA phone directories and the like.


I think this is the Inter-American Music Review (not Journal) from the

results of a quick Web search. It looks like a lot of college libraries

carry it.


- --

|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|

| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:01:41 -0800 (PST)

From: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] note on the archives


Hi,


I've installed a fresh version of hypermail and reprocessed the whole

history of the silence list, no mean task. It's up to date, and I'll

continue to update it based on the release of list digests.


The archive has inherited the look of the largely revised New Albion

site, which you might want to take a look at if you haven't wandered

through recently. It's still very simple, and I'm going to be redoing the

artist/composer pages, but the site's easier to navigate, there are track

lists for everything, and there are a fair number of RealAudio samples

scattered throughout. New Albion is alive and well, and to my taste,

the recent releases by Terry Riley, Matthias Ziegler, Stefano Scodanibbio,

the live performances from the Henry Cowell festival, and the re-release

(with an extra track) of Stephen Scott's first recording of bowed piano

music are really quite fine.


- --Eric

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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:48:29 -0600 (CST)

From: Craig B Parker <cbp@ksu.edu>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage's birthplace?


On Tue, 1 Feb 2000, Tim Song Jones wrote:


> Hi,

> Does anyone know where Cage's exact birthplace is? And what was his

> connection to Fontana, Calif?

> Tim

> -



Robert Stevenson's article, "John Cage on His 70th Birthday: West Coast

Background," Inter-American Music Review, V/1 (Fall 1982), 3-17, contains

the following statement on page 4:


"John Milton Cage, Jr.'s birth certificate signed by C. W. Seeber,

attending physician, September 7, 1912, attests delivery of the

composer-to-be, September 5 at A.M. in Good Samaritan Hospital, Los

Angeles. His 26-year-old father's occupation is listed on the certificate

as 'Mechanic (Ship Builder),' and his then residence is given as Long

Beach. His 27-year-old mother, maiden name Lucretia Harvey, is certified

as having been born in Iowa, and his parents are listed as having had one

previous child, no longer living."


This meticulously-researched article (Stevenson examined city directories,

high school and college yearbooks, patent applications, and many other

non-musical sources, as well as two teachers who worked with Cage when he

was on the staff at the UCLA elementary school) is essential reading for

all those interested in Cage's early years.




Craig B. Parker,Ph.D.

Kansas State University


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:14:50 -0700 (MST)

From: Christopher Shultis <cshultis@unm.edu>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


Dear David,


I would check the Getty in Los Angeles (they hold the David Tudor

Archives) and see if they have anything. I've heard that Tudor saved alot

and I've also heard that the Getty's website makes it easy to see what

they have. Lots of "hear"-say here but maybe that collection would have

Tudor's notes on the performance. Worth a look anyway!


All best,


Chris Shultis



> So back to my question. Does anyone have any concrete information as to

> how Cage and Tudor applied the score to their particular space, the

> Feigen-Palmer Gallery in LA (I believe the name was), and especially the

> means by which they selected and used recordings? We might not even use

> recordings at all, by the way. But I'd genuinely like to know.

>

> Thanks again --

>

> David

> dpmiller@world.std.com

>

>

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>


Christopher Shultis                             cshultis@unm.edu

University of New Mexico                 Department of Music


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 13:38:01 +0000

From: John Whiting <john.whiting@which.net>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


Rob Haskins wrote:

>

> There's a world of difference, don't you think,

> between David Tudor improvising and Joe Everyone

> improvising.


Remember Cage's observation that he disliked improvisation because it was

so predictable.


John Whiting

Diatribal Press

London

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 13:59:35 -0000

From: "Clemens Gresser" <C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


On 4 Feb 00, at 13:38, John Whiting wrote:


> Rob Haskins wrote:

> >

> > There's a world of difference, don't you think,

> > between David Tudor improvising and Joe Everyone

> > improvising.


To which John Whiting commented:

> Remember Cage's observation that he disliked improvisation because it was

> so predictable.


I am not a native English speaker and wonder how to call it though.

Regards,

Clemens

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 07:28:35 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


Hi Clemens,


- --- Clemens Gresser <C.Gresser@kunst.uni-frankfurt.de>

wrote:

> On 4 Feb 00, at 13:38, John Whiting wrote:

>

> > Rob Haskins wrote:

> > >

> > > There's a world of difference, don't you think,

> > > between David Tudor improvising and Joe Everyone

> > > improvising.

>

> To which John Whiting commented:

> > Remember Cage's observation that he disliked

> improvisation because it was

> > so predictable.


> I am not a native English speaker and wonder how to

> call it though.

> Regards,

> Clemens


What would you call it in German?


Rob


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:04:27 -0700

From: Larry Solomon <solo@azstarnet.com>

Subject: [silence] Minimal


I was taken aback by Glenn Freeman's response to my inquiry for a Cage

gig here. It was part of my hope to provide an opportunity for new music

ensembles as well as an opportunity for our community to hear a spectrum

of new music. I presented this to the list with optimism and enthusiasm.

To then have my motives questioned and to be accused of "ignorance" and

prejudice, I found to be very surprising and disappointing. (The term

"discriminating" I like.) Nevertheless upon reflection, it seems that

there is a need for refinement of the term "minimal", because there are

so many different types. Does anyone know of a classification?


I would, of course, love to have a representation of Cage's number

pieces, some of which I have had the privlege to perform myself.

Feldman's shorter pieces would also be most welcome. We have had a

number of concerts, recently, which consisted of long works with

repeated consonant triads and the like. (I consider New Age to be a

popular branch of minimalism.) Nothing wrong with this, okay. We are

just looking for something a little different now -- specifically a

range of diverse styles within one concert. I think that we are entitled

to seek a specific kind of programming without being called "ignorant"

and prejudiced. I could only hope for an apology. ;)

- --


Cheers,


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Larry J Solomon

The Center for the Arts, Pima College

2202 West Anklam Road, Tucson, AZ 85709-0015

Solomon's Music Theory & Composition Resources:

http://www.AzStarNet.com/~solo

Introduction to Music Theory Webcourse:

http://community.cc.pima.edu/classes/mus102/


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:13:31 -0500

From: charles shere <shere@compuserve.com>

Subject: [silence] JC and improvisation


In 1976 I attended the rehearsal of Atlas Eclipticalis (I think it was

AtEcl, but won't swear to it) at the San Jose Symphony, John Cage

conducting.


At one point the first trumpet played an ascending chromatic scale, rathe=

r

ostentatiously. Everyone looked at John to see what he'd do.


Without interrupting the rehearsal he looked toward the trumpet player an=

d

said "Trumpet, you shouldn't be playing a scale."


The trumpetplayer said something to the effect that his part allowed him =

to

play an undetermined sequence of notes at that point. Everyone continued =

to

play, but looked all the keener at John to see what he'd say, thus

challenged.


He said Yes, but any good musician would know that a scale would not be a=

n

appropriate sequence of notes in the context.


This really happened; I was there and saw and heard it. The trumpeter

didn't misbehave again, and the musicians respected the conductor for

having handled the situation with authority and in good humor.


It reminds us that throughout his work as composer and performer Cage is =

a

MUSICIAN, and expects musicianship from his performers. One must pay the

closest of attention to everything.


Further, John Whiting recalls Cage saying, at a rehearsal with the Electr=

ic

Phoenix for whom Whiting mixes audio, "The I Ching chooses the answers, b=

ut

you have to choose the questions." =



Charles Shere

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 09:50:08 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


                                               I want to ask

Lowell whether he remembers ANY significant difference in

David's performing of the various "Variations". I

ask because just because a performer doesn't have the score in

front of him/her, it doesn't mean that the performance is not

related to the score. There are many

scores of which one can study (or in David's case - just look

at) and commit to memory the basic "wind" of it and proceed to

your equipment/instrument and perform a "realization". One

could be giving an organ concert of Brown's "December 1952" and

follow it with a realization of Bland's "Speed" without having

either score in front of you.





                                                                

    Rod


=====

http://rostasi.8m.com


http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html


Syntax, like government, can only be obeyed. It is therefore of no use except when you have something particular to command such as: Go buy me a bunch of carrots. - John Cage

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 20:33:41 +0100

From: Tim Ovens <ovens@hmt-hannover.de>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


Rob Haskins schrieb:


> >

> > To which John Whiting commented:

> > > Remember Cage's observation that he disliked

> > improvisation because it was

> > > so predictable.

>

>

>

> What would you call it in German?

>

> Rob


Do you mean the German translation?


"Denke an Cages Bemerkung, dass er Improvisation nicht mochte, weil sie so

vorhersehbar ist."


In "Pour les Oiseaux" (German "Fⁿr die V÷gel", Merve Verlag) Cage speaks in

the sixth chapter on improvisation (here in jazz music). He ever feels, also

in free jazz, that the jazz isn't free. There are bounds of ideas and musical

relationships. He did work together with some free jazz musicians in Chicago,

so he tells. He gave them the advice not to listen to the playing of the

others, walking around when playing. Cage did try to disturb the conversation

in improvising to let the music free out of any conventions.


Tim

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__________________________________________________

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e-mail: ovens@hmt-hannover.de

website: http://www.mwserv.de/timovens





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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 16:06:38 -0500

From: Glenn Freeman <glennf@grfn.org>

Subject: Re: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal


I know about Larry's work and I commend him and anyone actively doing new music

of any type and in any way; just thought the statement was screaming for a a

small debate, especially on the silence list... :) :) :)


You might notice how many critics have used the word "minimal" here...


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ts/music-reviews/B00002SWSJ/chrisfongviolivi/002-1424208-8505818


The ideas of "minimal/nonminimal" present an interesting dilemma for those who

are actively doing new music with an open mind, especially those focusing on the

"so-called" minimal music for which Larry is referring to. However; in music,

what does minimal really mean? The definition can be VERY wide and can also

contradict itself. Any further ideas on this?


Glenn



Matthew Ross Davis writes:


"No, I don't think this applies to Cage's number pieces at all. Larry, perhaps

you can give some clarification as to what you mean by "minimal"?"

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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:01:05 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


- --- Tim Ovens <ovens@hmt-hannover.de> wrote:

>

>

> Rob Haskins schrieb:

>

> > >

> > > To which John Whiting commented:

> > > > Remember Cage's observation that he disliked

> > > improvisation because it was

> > > > so predictable.

> >

> >

> >

> > What would you call it in German?

> >

> > Rob

>

> Do you mean the German translation?


No. Since Clemens was using the word "improvisation"

and since he seemed to say it was a general

aspect of Cage's performance (which confused

me a great deal), I questioned him on

this. And his reply implied he was thinking

of a German word for which is a possible

English translation is improvisation.

I just wondered what word he had in mind.

If I misunderstood Clemens, I'm sorry.


Let's wait until he responds.


Rob


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:05:38 -0600 (CST)

From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


On Fri, 4 Feb 2000, Rod Stasick wrote:


> I want to ask

> Lowell whether he remembers ANY significant difference in

> David's performing of the various "Variations".


I could ask:


Do you mean 1) the same specific piece, as Variations VII (in which I

participated twice, the performances only a day apart), or 2) across the

the whole set of "Variations" pieces?


While I heard (and participated in) a limited number of the Variations

pieces, beginning with Variations II and III (performed simultaneously),

my answer to the question -- in both situations 1) and 2) above would

have to be "Yes, of course."


David Tudor was always trying out something new with his equipment -- a

new module, a new set of interconnections, and various gain, threshold,

feedback, modulation, dynamic, frequency, and transducer choices,

settings, and adjustments. He worked with a large array of variables.


Now if you ask me to give specific examples of these differences, one

performance to the next, I would be very hard pressed to do so. It would

be silly to say "On one night, David concentrated on sounds from feedback

routed through his selection of diodes; on another, he concentrated on

the effects he could obtain by allowing his almost-dead batteries to

weaken to a point of no return."


These were very specific techniques in his "performance practice;"

perhaps I am giving away some of his secrets and shouldn't be. In

actuality, he drew upon an entire gamut of effects in a single evening.


I am prepared to call his activities on such occasions "improvisatory;"

but one could call them "stream of consciousness," "spontaneous," or

"making it up as you go along."


             I

> ask because just because a performer doesn't have the score in

> front of him/her, it doesn't mean that the performance is not

> related to the score.


I don't believe that there really is a score for Variations VII, just

some notes by JC and a schematic diagram made by one of the Bell Labs

engineers for the "9 Evenings." If I am wrong, I would be very pleased

to learn about a "real" score. In any event, on the schematic diagram,

there is a rectangle in which is the designation "David's Own." John

Cage was quite prepared to let David Tudor do whatever he wanted to with

his own modules in Cage's works; in fact, he welcomed DT's activities,

whether one acknowledges those activities as improvisation or not.


But *I* have no problem calling DT's activities during Cage concerts

"improvisation," in fact, I think that it is an appropriate choice of

terminology. What JC himself did is a different matter entirely, of

course.


Lowell Cross


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:58:40 -0800 (PST)

From: Tom Pratt <tpratt9@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] Re: tudor/improv


- --- Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com> wrote:

> There's a world of difference, don't you think,

> between David Tudor improvising and Joe Everyone

> improvising. Which I think led Cage to the

> "Music of Contingency" pieces to begin with.


This is a really interesting point, and I'm very

pleased to learn that Cage was enthusiastic about

Tudor's improvising (big thanks to Lowell Cross).


I really can't help but add that I think there are a

great many improvisers around today whose music Cage

would really enjoy. As a serious follower of

improvised music, I've noticed that with a lot of

"cutting edge" improv, there seems to be less emphasis

on collective discourse and expression (jazz-derived

values) and more emphasis on the pursuit of new sounds

and sound relationships/interactions (modern

classical-derived values). For instance, Kevin Drumm

and Otomo Yoshihide are two artists whose music, I

feel, completely defies both Cage's criticism of

improv as empty gesture and also the hackneyed dynamic

arcs of the "genre".


For anyone interested, I think Drumm's first record on

Perdition Plastics (solo prepared guitar) and the

self-titled disc on Alcohol by I.S.O. (an

electro-acoustic trio led by Otomo) are prime examples

of what I'm talking about, both of which are permeated

with a very Cage-ean... "arbitrariness" (for big lack

of a better term) to the quality and placement of

sound.


                 -Tom Pratt

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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 22:41:20 -0600 (CST)

From: Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>

Subject: Re: [silence] Re: tudor/improv


On Fri, 4 Feb 2000, Tom Pratt wrote:

>

> This is a really interesting point, and I'm very

> pleased to learn that Cage was enthusiastic about

> Tudor's improvising (big thanks to Lowell Cross).


Thank you, Tom, for your kind words, but I think that we have to be

careful about assuming that Cage was "enthusiastic" about DT's

contributions, improvisatory or otherwise. Perhaps "appreciative"

is a more appropriate word.


Cage's emotions were quite genuine, but publicly restrained. He felt

very indebted to David Tudor, of course, but in a private, personal

sort of way.


LC


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:00:16 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage/Tudor's Variations IV


- --- Lowell Cross <lcross@coherent.music.uiowa.edu> wrote:

>

>

> On Fri, 4 Feb 2000, Rod Stasick wrote:

>

> > I want to ask

> > Lowell whether he remembers ANY significant difference in

> > David's performing of the various "Variations".

>

> I could ask:

>

> Do you mean 1) the same specific piece, as Variations VII (in

> which I

> participated twice, the performances only a day apart), or 2)

> across the

> the whole set of "Variations" pieces?



Well, I was referring to your second option. I wasn't expecting

specifics - I was rather referring to the idea that instead of

going out onstage with the attitude of *playing in the workshop*

with one's equipment that rather David would have the picture of

the score in his mind while doing what he did best. Tho' I

didn't know David as well as I did John, (David would always

call Jerry Hunt and/or myself when in town) some of the times

that we spent speaking (and others' observations) always yielded

comments surrounding an amazing memory for detail when it came

to scores. I guess my *take* on his performances of each of the

"Variations" would be that he did his own *very David

Tudor-like* "realization" of the works that were based on a

picture of a score in his head instead of an "improvisation" -

someone else with the same equipment would, of course, do a

different realization, but not have that "Tudor-like" stamp that

he brought to it. Hmm? Rod



  

>

> While I heard (and participated in) a limited number of the

> Variations

> pieces, beginning with Variations II and III (performed

> simultaneously),

> my answer to the question -- in both situations 1) and 2)

> above would

> have to be "Yes, of course."

>

> David Tudor was always trying out something new with his

> equipment -- a

> new module, a new set of interconnections, and various gain,

> threshold,

> feedback, modulation, dynamic, frequency, and transducer

> choices,

> settings, and adjustments. He worked with a large array of

> variables.

>

> Now if you ask me to give specific examples of these

> differences, one

> performance to the next, I would be very hard pressed to do

> so. It would

> be silly to say "On one night, David concentrated on sounds

> from feedback

> routed through his selection of diodes; on another, he

> concentrated on

> the effects he could obtain by allowing his almost-dead

> batteries to

> weaken to a point of no return."

>

> These were very specific techniques in his "performance

> practice;"

> perhaps I am giving away some of his secrets and shouldn't be.

> In

> actuality, he drew upon an entire gamut of effects in a single

> evening.

>

> I am prepared to call his activities on such occasions

> "improvisatory;"

> but one could call them "stream of consciousness,"

> "spontaneous," or

> "making it up as you go along."

>

> I

> > ask because just because a performer doesn't have the score

> in

> > front of him/her, it doesn't mean that the performance is

> not

> > related to the score.

>

> I don't believe that there really is a score for Variations

> VII, just

> some notes by JC and a schematic diagram made by one of the

> Bell Labs

> engineers for the "9 Evenings." If I am wrong, I would be

> very pleased

> to learn about a "real" score. In any event, on the schematic

> diagram,

> there is a rectangle in which is the designation "David's

> Own." John

> Cage was quite prepared to let David Tudor do whatever he

> wanted to with

> his own modules in Cage's works; in fact, he welcomed DT's

> activities,

> whether one acknowledges those activities as improvisation or

> not.

>

> But *I* have no problem calling DT's activities during Cage

> concerts

> "improvisation," in fact, I think that it is an appropriate

> choice of

> terminology. What JC himself did is a different matter

> entirely, of

> course.

>

> Lowell Cross

>

>


=====

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http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/hunt.jerry.html


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------------------------------


Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:46:51 +0100

From: "Daniel Wolf" <djwolf@snafu.de>

Subject: Re: [silence] Re: tudor/improv


Cage was astonishly reticent about how the musicians for the Cunningham

company worked. In part this is because he simply avoided learning details

about the electronics. That was the province of Tudor and the third musician

at the table (Dunn, Cross, Mumma, Behrman, Kosugi etc.) Further, the

question of improvisation and its relationship to composition seems to have

been very problematic for Cage. There is a long evolution in his own work

from scores which demand considerable interpretation through the music of

contingency and on to the scores which specifically call for improvisation.

The constant in his own work was (with the exception perhaps of certain

Variations) the presence of a score. But the work of most others played by

the company musicians ad long since ceased to include written scores, and

did often involve explicit improvisation within a given configuration of

resources.


One has the impression that Cage was making an increasingly unsustainable

distinction between improvisation as it was done "out there" by others and

improvisation as it was done by the company musicians. It has to be

considered that what was possible under the term improvisation "out there"

changed very much during Cage's career. When, in his early writings, he

criticized improvisation, the object of the criticism was either Jazz or

perhaps something in the Gunther Schuller line. The advent of "free

improvisation" made criticism of everything that fell under the term

improvisation less tenable, but does not invalidate the critique itself.


Daniel Wolf

Frankfurt-am-Main


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------------------------------


Date: 05 Feb 2000 09:11:19 EST

From: Charles.E.Hamm@Dartmouth.EDU (Charles E. Hamm)

Subject: [silence] Cage and "improvisation"


I just came across a letter from John Cage, written to me in 1973 when I was

compiling a list of his compositions for my article in the New Grove's

Dictionary of Music and Musicians and had been discussing with him whether or

not certain of his "compositions" should be included. He says of MUSICIRCUS,

which had recently been done at the University of Illinois: "It is doubtful

whether my work in connection with that piece is as integral a part of it as the

work of all the actual performers of it. The same is true of REUNION. . . .

VARIATIONS 7 & 8 I am still doubtful about."


     I mention this because from time to time members of this list have quoted

Cage's remark "permission granted, but not to do whatever you choose." OK, but

what can get lost is the historical fact that Cage's thinking and techniques

were not monolithic throughout his life and career, and there was a period in

the '60s and early '70s when the relationships among Cage the composer, a

"composition" of his, the score for that piece, and its performance were not the

same as they had been earlier and would be later. Gordon Mumma and Jim Tenney,

among others, have plenty of stories about how they would often simply "wing

it" during performances, and how Cage would sometimes do the same himself. It

would seem that during this period the operative phrase was "permission granted

to do whatever you choose, within a certain time frame." The question remaining

is whether or not this permission was granted only to members of Cage's

performing circle, or to others as well.


     Charles Hamm

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Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 10:20:44 -0500

From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal


At 12:51 PM 2/3/00 -0500, Glenn Freeman wrote:

>That strikes ALL of Cage's "number pieces"...right? I would also go as far

as to

>suggest it also strikes a complete performance of the Freeman Etudes. Is there

>musical discrimination/ignorance going on here? If so, Cage might have been

upset

>by this discrimination...

>

This seems an odd response, for a number of reasons:


Any concert promoter is looking for a particular area, and defines that area

using any number of criteria. Supposing Larry had said, "preferrably no pop

music" or "no drums'n'bass"?


I know the word "minimalism" has been abused, most notably in the NYTimes

Cage obit 8 years ago. Historically, it is a useful word only if it refers

to repetetive, mostly tonal music coming from the group around and

influenced by Young, Glass, Riley etc. This could be stretched to include

Lucier's work, but already the word is becoming less useful. (Kind of like

calling Creedence Clearwater Revival "country-western". Sure, the influence

is there, but not in common understanding.) If you start talking about

Feldman and Ligeti, then you should include Harry Partch. And how 'bout

Webern - he uses forms of the same row over and over again, and frequently

has a sparse texture. By any stretch, I can't see including the Freeman

etudes, unless you're talking solely about length, in which case Mahler is

also minimalist...


Finally, don't we have enough forums for whatever Minimalism passes itself

off as these days (Bang on a Can, for example)? Non-repetetive/tonal/trance

music is hard enough to come by in Boston, let alone (I imagine) in Tuscon,

and it's even harder to get a gig playing the stuff ...


- --steve


http://www.stephendrury.com


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------------------------------


Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 11:02:57 -0500

From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal


At 10:20 AM 2/5/00 -0500, stephen drury wrote:

>

>I know the word "minimalism" has been abused, most notably in the NYTimes

>Cage obit 8 years ago. Historically, it is a useful word only if it refers

>to repetetive, mostly tonal music coming from the group around and

>influenced by Young, Glass, Riley etc. This could be stretched to include

>Lucier's work, but already the word is becoming less useful. (Kind of like

>calling Creedence Clearwater Revival "country-western". Sure, the influence

>is there, but not in common understanding.) If you start talking about

>Feldman and Ligeti, then you should include Harry Partch. And how 'bout

>Webern - he uses forms of the same row over and over again, and frequently

>has a sparse texture.


Speaking of Webern the minimalist, did anyone else find the phrase

'Webern-Stockhausen-La Monte Young trajectory [which] carries us deep into

the heart of the single note' in the February Wire (in a review of Sheila

Chandra's new album, no less) to be a bit of a stretch? I was previously

unaware of trajectories that went from Stockhausen to Young (although

perhaps Stimmung is independently related to some common issues). In any

event, I am pleased to know that Webern is not only a minimalist, but a

drone artist as well.


- --

Caleb Deupree

cdeupree@erinet.com


It is pretty obvious that the debasement of the human mind caused by a

constant flow of fraudulent advertising is no trivial thing. There is more

than one way to conquer a country.


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------------------------------


Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:22:12 +0100

From: "Daniel Wolf" <djwolf@snafu.de>

Subject: Re: [silence] Preferably Not Minimal


For La Monte Young and many others in the Bay area scene (Reich, Riley,

Oliveros, Leedy), Webern's assigned of particular pitches to fixed registers

created a static background element in the music.


The connection between Young and Stockhausen is more complex. While Young

was in Stockhausen's seminar at Darmstadt, Young, having already composed

the _Trio for strings_, _for brass_ and two (almost three) piano _Studies_

was already disinclined to taking on a student relationship with

Stockhausen. On the other hand, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that

Stockhausen's _Stimmung_ was composed in response to visiting Young and

Zazeela's loft and hearing recordings by the Theatre of Eternal Music.

(Similarly, the tuning used in Stockhausen's _Sternklang_ is indebted to the

tonality diamond of Harry Partch, whom Stockhausen met during his guest

professorship in Davis).


Daniel Wolf


- ----- > Speaking of Webern the minimalist, did anyone else find the phrase

> 'Webern-Stockhausen-La Monte Young trajectory [which] carries us deep into

> the heart of the single note' in the February Wire (in a review of Sheila

> Chandra's new album, no less) to be a bit of a stretch? I was previously

> unaware of trajectories that went from Stockhausen to Young (although

> perhaps Stimmung is independently related to some common issues). In any

> event, I am pleased to know that Webern is not only a minimalist, but a

> drone artist as well.






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End of silence-digest V1 #311

*****************************



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Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 14:39:56 -0600

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hampus_Holm=E9n?= <umpe.korn@telia.com>

Cc: silence@metatronpress.com

Subject: Re: [silence] John Cage

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On Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 07:19:17PM +0100, Hampus HolmΘn wrote:

> I┤m doing a research on John Cage.

> Specially on his purpose with his music.

> What is your opinion bout his work? Did he have a meaning with it?


A ggod place to start to find the opinions of the members of this list

(in addition to whatever anyone might want to add now) would be the

list archives at http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/


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From jzitt Sun Mar 11 08:21:04 2001

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From: Tim Ovens <mail@timovens.de>

To: Silence List <silence@metatronpress.com>

Subject: [silence] electronic music for piano

Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:25:30 +0100

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Hi all,


I am working on a catalogue of Cages works which will be a part of a CD-ROM

about Cage, mainly about the Sonatas & Interludes.


In Larry Salamons list there is

    1965: Electronic Music for Piano. piano and electronics; uses material

from Music for Piano 4-84

and also

    1962: Music for Piano 85. piano & live electronics.


Is this possibly the same work. Does anyone know?


Let me please also announce a CD, released in 1999:

John Cage, "Jede Menge Klavier" (gutingi 506)

It is a recording of a live concert: Works from Cage for one to five pianos

The pianists: Darlen Bakke, Martin Doerrie, Bernd Goetzke, Christoph Keymer

, Tim Ovens , Tatjana Prelevic , Gerrit Zitterbart


1. Music For Marcel Duchamp

2. Experiences: Nr. 1 Duo f. 2 pianos

3. Two Pieces (1935/1974)

4. Etudes australes: Nr. 1

5. Mysterious Adventure

6. In A Landscape

7. Music For Amplified Toy Pianos

8. Music Of Changes: Book 3

9. Dream

10. The Perilous Night (4 movements)

11. Water Music: 14.10.99

12. Five (played on five pianos)

13. 0:00 (performed by Darlen Bakke , Martin D÷rrie , Bernd Goetzke ,

Christoph Keymer , Tim Ovens , Tatjana Prelevic , Gerrit Zitterbart)


Tim


__________________________________________________

Tim Ovens

Pianist

Hochschule fuer Musik und Theater Hannover


e-mail: mail@timovens.de

website: www.timovens.de




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From jzitt Sun Mar 11 14:39:20 2001

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Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 14:37:12 -0600

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

To: Tim Ovens <mail@timovens.de>

Cc: Silence List <silence@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] electronic music for piano

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On Sun, Mar 11, 2001 at 03:25:30PM +0100, Tim Ovens wrote:

 

> Let me please also announce a CD, released in 1999:

> John Cage, "Jede Menge Klavier" (gutingi 506)

> It is a recording of a live concert: Works from Cage for one to five pianos

> The pianists: Darlen Bakke, Martin Doerrie, Bernd Goetzke, Christoph Keymer

> , Tim Ovens , Tatjana Prelevic , Gerrit Zitterbart


How can we order this CD? Is it available from any online CD shops?


--

|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|

| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |

| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |

| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


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From mail@timovens.de Sun Mar 11 16:28:40 2001

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From: Tim Ovens <mail@timovens.de>

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References: <000901c0aa37$39262be0$23f94b82@oemcomputer> <20010311143712.L19411@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] electronic music for piano

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> On Sun, Mar 11, 2001 at 03:25:30PM +0100, Tim Ovens wrote:

>

> > Let me please also announce a CD, released in 1999:

> > John Cage, "Jede Menge Klavier" (gutingi 506)

> > It is a recording of a live concert: Works from Cage for one to five

pianos

> > The pianists: Darlen Bakke, Martin Doerrie, Bernd Goetzke, Christoph

Keymer

> > , Tim Ovens , Tatjana Prelevic , Gerrit Zitterbart

>

> How can we order this CD? Is it available from any online CD shops?


You can order at amazon.de (with very expensive shipping), at amazon.com I

didnt't find it. Others I didn't look for.

You also can order on my website or directly from me. Then the CD costs US$

20 incl. shipping.


__________________________________________________

Tim Ovens

Pianist

Hochschule fuer Musik und Theater Hannover


e-mail: mail@timovens.de

website: www.timovens.de



From jzitt Mon Mar 12 18:14:50 2001

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Subject: [silence] Aleatoric earthquake art

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http://www.gaelwolf.com/pendulum.html









--



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From jzitt Tue Mar 13 08:06:29 2001

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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 06:03:35 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] Cage chess games and Song Books in Rochester on March 30

To: "SilenceáList" <silence@metatronpress.com>

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Sorry if this question has been asked and answered before,

but I'm in a rush this morning and I haven't got the time

to search the Silence archives:


I'd love to get a copy of any chess games that Cage

played--e-mail would be my preferred mode of receipt.


And on Friday, March 30, at 8 p.m., the all-student-run

new music group at Eastman, Ossia, will present a

staged, evening-length performance of Cage's _Song

Books_, directed by Nigel Maister of the University

of Rochester Theatre Program to an original concept

by me and Elizabeth Wells. I hope that my brief

program notes will be up and running on the Ossia

website <www.esm.rochester.edu/Ossia> soon. We

have a cast of 18 or so and will include recordings

of _Indeterminacy_ (recorded by me and digitally

altered by Jason Price), Aria, and the Solos for

Violin and Cello from the _Concert for Piano

and Orchestra_.


Rob


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage


__________________________________________________

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From jzitt Wed Mar 14 18:39:36 2001

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From: owner-silence-digest@metatronpress.com (silence-digest)

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Subject: silence-digest V1 #340

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silence-digest Wednesday, March 14 2001 Volume 01 : Number 340





----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:00:43 -0800 (PST)

From: Andy Dancer <ubuweb@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] Cage, La Barbara + Joey Ramone


Speaking of the Cage / Wyatt / Bley disc:


A few weeks ago, Joan La Barbara, Margaret Leng Tan

and the Flux Quartet were on my WFMU show doing stuff

from the then upcoming Carnegie Hall series. I pulled

out the Obscure disc on the air for Joan; she was very

eager to hear the Bley "forever and sunsmell" cut. So

I played it and she listened closely and ended up

thinking that it wasn't great; evidently Bley didn't

jump an octave where she was supposed to. To remedy

this, I played Joey Ramone's version of "The Wonderful

Widow of Eighteen Springs" from the Caged / Uncaged

disc and she lit up! She thought that Joey Ramone did

an accurate and careful reading of Cage's work. Go

figure!


You can hear all of the above and the entire live 3

hour show on WFMU's RealAudio archive:


http://archive.wfmu.org/archive/KG/kg010208.ram


- --Kenny G / WFMU


PS: Has anyone heard Ampersand's reissue of "Empty

Words (Parte III)? It's wild. The dynamic between Cage

and the restless crowd makes for some of the most

exciting stuff I've heard in a long time. Oh my god...


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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:06:45 +0000

From: Stuart Riddle <stuart.riddle@virgin.net>

Subject: [silence] FW: Cambridge Companion To John Cage


- ----------

From: Stuart Riddle <stuart.riddle@virgin.net>

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:10:53 +0000

To: <silence@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Cambridge Companion To John Cage


I have just received a mailing from Cambridge University Press. Under

forthcoming titles they list:


The Cambridge Companion To John Cage

Edited by David Nicholls

0 521 78348 8 HB

0 521 78968 0 PB


Does anyone have any further news on this?


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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:37:22 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] FW: Cambridge Companion To John Cage


The Cambridge Composer Companions generally

offer a series of essays by a number scholars

doing research on a particular composer.

The essays typically cover the usual "life and

works" combo. Our own Chris Shultis is writing

one of the chapters; I imagine James Pritchett

will contribute something as well. I hope that

the book will give a wonderful summary of

the state of Cage research--if it's anything like

the one on Bach that came out a few years

ago, it will be a valuable reference tool for

some time to come.


Rob


- --- Stuart Riddle <stuart.riddle@virgin.net> wrote:

>

> ----------

> From: Stuart Riddle <stuart.riddle@virgin.net>

> Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 21:10:53 +0000

> To: <silence@metatronpress.com>

> Subject: Cambridge Companion To John Cage

>

> I have just received a mailing from Cambridge University Press. Under

> forthcoming titles they list:

>

> The Cambridge Companion To John Cage

> Edited by David Nicholls

> 0 521 78348 8 HB

> 0 521 78968 0 PB

>

> Does anyone have any further news on this?

>

> -

> [Searchable Silence archives:

> http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]

> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc:

> http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]

> [ or email majordomo@metatronpress.com with the text "info

> silence" ]



=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage


__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:53:44 -0800 (PST)

From: Andy Dancer <ubuweb@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage, La Barbara + Joey Ramone


- --- Lbatlibrary@aol.com wrote:

 

> I don't know about that Joey Ramone cut. Can someone

> enlighten me?


The Ramone cut is off _Caged / Uncaged_ on a Cramps

CD. It was prepared for the 1993 Venice Biennale and

was co-produced by NYC's PS 1.


Joey Ramone: Vocals

Don Yallach Percussion

Joe McGinty: MIDI Programming

Produced by John Cale


It's a very, very straight, serious and sober

interpretation of "The Wonderful Widow..." and I'm

sure that's why Joan respected it more than she did

the Bley, which if I'm not mistaken, Joan felt she had

taken some liberties with...


The Caged / Uncaged disc is an experimental rock

tribute disc featuring David Byrne, Debbie Harry, Arto

Lindsay, Ars Hell and Mutt, Zorn, Chris Stein, Amy

Denio, David Weinstein / Shelley Hirsch, Ann Magnuson

/ John Cale, Jello Biafra / Eugene Chadbourne, Lou

Reed, Eliott Sharp, Joey Ramone and, of course, John Cage.


__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:56:58 -0800 (PST)

From: Andy Dancer <ubuweb@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] More on Joey Ramone


>From the liner notes:


Joey, Ramone, lead singer of the legendary rock group

the Ramones, chose to record a Cage composition

entitled "The Wonderful Widow of Eighteen Springs", on

a text from James Joyce's Finnegans Wake. Written in

1942, the piece was originally scored for contralto

voice and prepared piano, with the piano lid closed

and the written notes A, B, C, and D representing four

different places for the piano to be struck as a

percussion instrument. Joey Ramone's rendition, which

features Don Yallach and Joe McGinty of the

Psychedelic Furs on percussion and MIDI programming

respectively, was produced by John Cale at his own

studio, and again engineered by Miles Green. Although

MIDI drum pads were used instead of the piano, and the

vocal part was transposed firom a contralto to Joey

Ramones baritone, the integrity of the original

composition is intact, and it imparts an unmistaken

Queens "rock and roll" feel to the Joycean lyrics.




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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:18:36 -0800 (PST)

From: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage panel in SF + RealMedia webcast


Hi everyone,


We're still on for the webcast of the panel tomorrow night, though we

haven't yet had a chance to do a tech check in the auditorium. Again,

the event will begin at 7:30pm Pacific Time, and there's a currently

inactive link from the page at


    http://63.197.251.104/


It'll probably go live around 7 or so, and you can watch the stage

preparations if you're so inclined.


Thanks, Eric

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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:21:23 -0800 (PST)

From: "Eric S. Theise" <mataro@cyberwerks.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] 4'33 and Radio Music


Robert F. Jones writes:

> I've done Radio Music many times with college students (it's actually a bit

> more challenging to play than it seems at first). In recent years I find

> that it's getting harder to find AM radios.


Radio Music is on the program here in San Francisco tomorrow night, and

there has been some trouble tracking down AM radios with dial tuners.

I'm bringing two Panasonic clock radios that fit the bill. Still not

that warm tube sound, but it's the best we can do without hitting the

thrift/antique stores.


- --Eric

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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 20:56:36 -0600

From: "Twine sound" <twine_sound@hotmail.com>

Subject: [silence] Twine sight has been updated and moved:


the new link is:


http://www.four09.org/twine



Please update links.




Thanks,

Chad Mossholder

Twine/Twinesound Audio Productions

ùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùù.

http://www.personal.kent.edu/~mmercer/twine

http://www.heftyrecords.com

twinesound@hotmail.com

.ùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùùù

- --"The original is unfaithful to the copy." Jorge Luis Borges


_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:23:45 -0800 (PST)

From: Andy Dancer <ubuweb@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] U B U W E B :: New Resources Winter 2001


         UbuWeb Visual, Concrete + Sound Poetry

                     http://www.ubu.com


U B U W E B :: N E W__R E S O U R C E S :: W I N T E

R__2001


          ---HISTORICAL---


Ian Hamilton Finlay - Wild Hawthorn Press, 1960s


          ---CONTEMPORARY---


Julien d'Abrigeon - Shockwave Visual Sound Poem

Guerilla Poetry - Shockwave Poetry

Neil Hennessy - 2 New Java Applets

Lucas Mulder - random buttons (javascript poetry)

William Poundstone - 3 Shockwave Poems

Brian Kim Stefans - The Dreamlife of Letters

Fernando Strano - Flash Poetry

Ana Maria Uribe - 3 Animations


              ---SOUND---


Vito Acconci - Ten Packed Minutes

Antonin Artaud - Pour en finir avec le jugement de

dieu (1947)

Hugo Ball - 6 Sound Poems from 1916

Giacomo Balla - 3 Sound Poems from 1914

William S. Burroughs - Break Through in the Grey Room

(1960s)

Francis E. Dec - 5 Rants

Marcel Duchamp - Lecutres, Interviews + Spoken Texts

Paul Dutton - Mouthpieces

Kipper Kids - Sheik of Araby

Paul McCarthy - Boston Bay

Gregory Whitehead - Blackhumour / Dead Languages


COMING SOON: In collaboration with the Electronic

Poetry Center, University of Buffalo: Historical MP3

Sound Poetry Archive (to be launched Spring 2001)


             ---PAPERS---


Kevin Concannon -- "Cut + Paste: Collage and the Art

of Sound"

Dick Higgins - A Short History of Pattern Poetry

Daniele Lombardi -- "Futurism and Musical Notes"

Clark Lunberry -- "Broken English: Deviant Language

and the Para-Poetic"

F.T. Marinetti -- "Geometric Mechanical Splendor + the

Numeric Sensibility"

Gil McElroy -- "Ground States: The Visual Contexts of

bpNichol"



              UbuWeb Visual, Concrete + Sound Poetry

                             http://www.ubu.com


__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 22:45:04 +0000

From: Dominic Rivron <karen.rivron@virgin.net>

Subject: Re: [silence] 4'33 and Radio Music


Eric S. Theise wrote:

>

> Robert F. Jones writes:

> > I've done Radio Music many times with college students (it's actually a bit

> > more challenging to play than it seems at first). In recent years I find

> > that it's getting harder to find AM radios.


One could always go to


http://www.midnightscience.com/


ie, the Crystal Radio Society, and build your own. A crystal set would

need amplifying (you'd need to calibrate the dial too, and it wouldn't

be very selective). BUT they do advertise a simple one-tube regenerative

receiver kit, which **might** be really good.


More on crystal radios (and even how to make them out of rusty razor

blades) at

http://freeweb.pdq.net/headstrong/crystal.htm

They do mention

Antique Electronics Supply, 6221 S. Maple, Tempe, AZ

          85283-2856 USA (phone 602-820-5411)

I know nothing about them, but it got me thinking of past requests on

the list re old mike inserts, etc. It depends what you (and they) call

antique.


Dominic

- --


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http://www.thehungersite.com



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------------------------------


Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 19:29:36 -0000

From: "Clemens Gresser" <cgresser@gmx.net>

Subject: [silence] Re: Cambridge Companion To John Cage


Just to add some more info:


Contributors of the forthcoming Cambridge Companion To John

Cage include David Bernstein, William Brooks, Kathan Brown, Kyle

Gann, David Patterson, Leta Miller, David Nicholls, Christopher

Shultis and Mark Swed.


Regards,

Clemens Gresser


cgresser@gmx.net

http://www.crosswinds.net/~cgresser


P.S. Der Mailserver von GMX.NET "verliert" von Zeit zu Zeit E-Mails.

Sollte ich auf eine Mail (lΣngere Zeit) nicht antworten, wΣre ich dankbar,

wenn Sie/Du mir diese nochmal zusenden wⁿrden/wⁿrdest. Danke!

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------------------------------


Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:08:26 -0500 (EST)

From: <kos@iota.onepine.com>

Subject: [silence] Availability of Chess Piece


Hi gang,


Where can one obtain "Chess Piece," the film made of John Cage and

Teeny Duchamp's chess game? (I believe the date is 1986.)


I know Joseph Zitt mentioned in previous posts that it was available as

part of the Rolyholyover event in Los Angeles, but that's history now.


Anyone know it's current distributor/availability status?


Bob Kosovsky -- Librarian

Music Division, The New York Public Library for the Performing Arts

kos@iota.onepine.com bkosovsky@nypl.org

    Listowner: OPERA-L@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU ; smt-list@smt.ucsb.edu

                    Administrivia to: rjkgc@cunyvm.cuny.edu

- ------My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions-------


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------------------------------


Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:37:51 -0500

From: David P Miller <dpmiller@world.std.com>

Subject: [silence] Niki de Saint Phalle/Variations


Hi everyone -- I was recently reading through an exhibition catalogue for

works of Niki de Saint Phalle. It was mentioned in the catalog that she

performed in "Variations by John Cage, given at the American Embassy, 20

June [1961], with Jasper Johns, Robert Rauschenberg, Jean Tinguely, and

David Tudor."


Does anyone have any information (or memories) of this concert, or perhaps

have a lead on a source for more information? I'm interested in chasing

down as much about different "Variations" performances as I can find.


Thanks!


David

dpmiller@world.std.com



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------------------------------


Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:25:09 -0800 (PST)

From: Lama Kunga Gyaltsen <lotsawa@speakeasy.org>

Subject: Re: [silence] Availability of Chess Piece


I don't know. However, if anybody wants a copy of my chess match with John Cage

at UC-Davis in 1969, I would be happy to put it up online and send it to anybody

that requests it. One game only. John Cage-White / Storrs Barrett

Booch-Williams, Black. Result: SBB-W 1, JC 0, in a 21-move crusher. For which I

went around for a couple of years with a swelled head saying to myself "After

all, what is there for a young [then] Avant Garde composer to do, who has bested

the Dean of the Avant Garde in a Game of Chess? I do know who Won that battle,

which took place in Cage's UC-Davis office, but I have always said that I'm not

sure who Won the War? We got close several other times, at the Cabrillo Festival

(1978 I think) and in Correspondence (1990-91) to play some more, but

"composed" instead [I Ching compositions at the Cabrillo Festival, along with

Composer-Musician John William Mallot [OM'aLot] and NY-Seattle correspondence

after that. Anybody interested in a copy of the game -- which of course I have

preserved [on Chicago Chess Club form] for posterity?


Storrs Barrett Booch-Williams

aka, Lama Kunga Gyaltsen


            **************************************************************

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            **************************************************************


On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, kos@iota.onepine.com wrote:


> Hi gang,

>

> Where can one obtain "Chess Piece," the film made of John Cage and

> Teeny Duchamp's chess game? (I believe the date is 1986.)

>

> I know Joseph Zitt mentioned in previous posts that it was available as

> part of the Rolyholyover event in Los Angeles, but that's history now.

>

> Anyone know it's current distributor/availability status?

>

> Bob Kosovsky -- Librarian

> Music Division, The New York Public Library for the Performing Arts

> kos@iota.onepine.com bkosovsky@nypl.org

> Listowner: OPERA-L@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU ; smt-list@smt.ucsb.edu

> Administrivia to: rjkgc@cunyvm.cuny.edu

> ------My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions-------

>

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>


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------------------------------


Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:44:08 -0600

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Availability of Chess Piece


On Mon, Mar 05, 2001 at 12:25:09PM -0800, Lama Kunga Gyaltsen wrote:

> I don't know. However, if anybody wants a copy of my chess match with John Cage

> at UC-Davis in 1969, I would be happy to put it up online and send it to anybody

> that requests it.


If you put it online, I'll gladly link to it from the Silence page. I

don't know that anyone's done a philosophical analysis of Cage's chess

practices, but once enough data is accumulated, it would probably be

inevitable :-)


- --

|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|

| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |

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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 06:30:00 -0600

From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>

Subject: [silence] Lou Harrison in RealAudio


Hi y'all,


This week on Mappings <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/>,

you'll hear music by Lou Harrison, including his work's Rhymes with

Silver, Piano Concerto, Varied Trio, Gending Alexander, Concerto in

slendro, 5th Simfony, The Perilous Chapel, Fugue, and Bubaran Robert.


The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0800 GMT) and

will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program,

featuring music by Eve Beglarian, Kitty Brazleton, Emidio Buchinho,

Eugene Chadbourne, Elizabeth Falconer, Jonathan Harvey, Frank Lowe,

Denman Maroney & Hans Tammen, Elizabeth Panzer, Poul Ruders, Tadao

Sawai, and Chas Smith is still available in the Mappings archive

<http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index1.htm>, where you

can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998.


Hope you tune in to the program.


Bests,


Herb

- --

Herb Levy

P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147

817 377-2983

herb@eskimo.com

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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:16:09 +0100

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Chaudron?= <chaudron@worldonline.nl>

Subject: [silence] Pianoworks Vol.6


This week Vol.6 of the Pianoworks was released in Europe. It looks like

another interesting CD entitled Works 1960-1992, including One, One2 (first

recording), One5, ASLSP, Etudes Boreales and The Beatles 1962-1970 (first

recording).

I am very curious, ordered it from my shop but didn't get it yet.

Steffen Schleiermacher is an extremely good pianist and his series are worth

exploring! Take a look at his site as well:

http://www.schleiermacher-leipzig.de/

Three more volumes are planned:


vol 7 Pieces 1933-1950 (erscheint im Juli)

Soliloquy (1945) 3 min

Ophelia (1946) 6 min

The Season (1947) 15 min

Two Pieces for Piano (1935) 5 min

Jazz Study (1942) 3 min

Metamorphosis (1938) 15 min

Quest (1935) 2 min

Three Early Pieces (1933) 4 min

A Room (1943) 2 min

Crete & Dad (1945) 2 min

Two Pieces for Piano (1946) 6 min

Ad Lib. (1943) 4 min

Tripel-paced (1944) 3 min


vol 8 Hommage α Satie erscheint im September

Perpetual Tango (1984)

In a Landscape (1948) 9 min

Perpetual Tango (1984)

Suite for Toy Piano (version for piano) (1948) 8 min

Perpetual Tango (1984)

Cheap Imitation (1969)

Perpetual Tango (1984)

Dream (1948) 6 min

Perpetual Tango (1984)

Swinging (1989)

Perpetual Tango (1984)


Vol 9 (3 CD) Etudes Australis (erscheint Februar 2002)


I wonder what happened to a piece like 'Furniture Music Etcetera'. (might be

included in 'Hommage a Satie' I guess). According to the Mr.Schleiermacher

this work is not written for piano. Does anyone have more information about

this work?

I also miss 'Chess Pieces' (is this written for the piano?), 'Encounter'

(how fragmentary is this work?) and 'Orestes'. Does anyone have a clue why

they should not be included in the 'Complete Music for Piano'?


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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:55:41 -0600

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Pianoworks Vol.6


On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 08:16:09PM +0100, AndrΘ Chaudron wrote:

> This week Vol.6 of the Pianoworks was released in Europe. It looks like

> another interesting CD entitled Works 1960-1992, including One, One2 (first

> recording), One5, ASLSP, Etudes Boreales and The Beatles 1962-1970 (first

> recording).


A first recording? Isn't this the piece that Aki Takahashi (?) recorded

years ago?


- --

|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|

| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |

| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |

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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:58:37 -0600

From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Pianoworks Vol.6


>This week Vol.6 of the Pianoworks was released in Europe. It looks like

>another interesting CD entitled Works 1960-1992, including One, One2 (first

>recording), One5, ASLSP, Etudes Boreales and The Beatles 1962-1970 (first

>recording).


Dear Andre,


Thanks for the news, it looks like they're going to get through the

rest of the series rather quickly.


For what it's worth, the Beatles 1962-1970 is NOT a first recording:

Aki Takahashi, who commissioned it (along with arrangements of other

music by the Beatles by 40-50 composers) recorded it on a CD entitled

Hyper-Beatles. EMI put it out, but it is no longer in print.


Bests,


Herb

- --

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P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147

817 377-2983

herb@eskimo.com

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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 22:19:17 +0100

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Chaudron?= <chaudron@worldonline.nl>

Subject: [silence] first recordings


Sorry for the wrong 'first recordings'. I thought it was the first release

on CD. My mistake.


Andre Chaudron



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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 18:43:04 -0500

From: Mode Records <mode@mode.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] Pianoworks Vol.6


Indeed, Aki Takahashi did record this as part of her HYPER-BEATLES series.


Brian Brandt

mode records


Joseph Zitt wrote:


> On Tue, Mar 06, 2001 at 08:16:09PM +0100, AndrΘ Chaudron wrote:

> > This week Vol.6 of the Pianoworks was released in Europe. It looks like

> > another interesting CD entitled Works 1960-1992, including One, One2 (first

> > recording), One5, ASLSP, Etudes Boreales and The Beatles 1962-1970 (first

> > recording).

>

> A first recording? Isn't this the piece that Aki Takahashi (?) recorded

> years ago?

>

> --

> |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|

> | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |

> | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |

> | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |

>

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------------------------------


Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 19:19:17 +0100

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hampus_Holm=E9n?= <umpe.korn@telia.com>

Subject: [silence] John Cage


I┤m doing a research on John Cage.

Specially on his purpose with his music.

What is your opinion bout his work? Did he have a meaning with it?


/Hampus


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------------------------------


Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 14:39:56 -0600

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] John Cage


On Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 07:19:17PM +0100, Hampus HolmΘn wrote:

> I┤m doing a research on John Cage.

> Specially on his purpose with his music.

> What is your opinion bout his work? Did he have a meaning with it?


A ggod place to start to find the opinions of the members of this list

(in addition to whatever anyone might want to add now) would be the

list archives at http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/


- --

|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|

| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |

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------------------------------


Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:25:30 +0100

From: Tim Ovens <mail@timovens.de>

Subject: [silence] electronic music for piano


Hi all,


I am working on a catalogue of Cages works which will be a part of a CD-ROM

about Cage, mainly about the Sonatas & Interludes.


In Larry Salamons list there is

    1965: Electronic Music for Piano. piano and electronics; uses material

from Music for Piano 4-84

and also

    1962: Music for Piano 85. piano & live electronics.


Is this possibly the same work. Does anyone know?


Let me please also announce a CD, released in 1999:

John Cage, "Jede Menge Klavier" (gutingi 506)

It is a recording of a live concert: Works from Cage for one to five pianos

The pianists: Darlen Bakke, Martin Doerrie, Bernd Goetzke, Christoph Keymer

, Tim Ovens , Tatjana Prelevic , Gerrit Zitterbart


1. Music For Marcel Duchamp

2. Experiences: Nr. 1 Duo f. 2 pianos

3. Two Pieces (1935/1974)

4. Etudes australes: Nr. 1

5. Mysterious Adventure

6. In A Landscape

7. Music For Amplified Toy Pianos

8. Music Of Changes: Book 3

9. Dream

10. The Perilous Night (4 movements)

11. Water Music: 14.10.99

12. Five (played on five pianos)

13. 0:00 (performed by Darlen Bakke , Martin D÷rrie , Bernd Goetzke ,

Christoph Keymer , Tim Ovens , Tatjana Prelevic , Gerrit Zitterbart)


Tim


__________________________________________________

Tim Ovens

Pianist

Hochschule fuer Musik und Theater Hannover


e-mail: mail@timovens.de

website: www.timovens.de




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------------------------------


Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 14:37:12 -0600

From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>

Subject: Re: [silence] electronic music for piano


On Sun, Mar 11, 2001 at 03:25:30PM +0100, Tim Ovens wrote:

 

> Let me please also announce a CD, released in 1999:

> John Cage, "Jede Menge Klavier" (gutingi 506)

> It is a recording of a live concert: Works from Cage for one to five pianos

> The pianists: Darlen Bakke, Martin Doerrie, Bernd Goetzke, Christoph Keymer

> , Tim Ovens , Tatjana Prelevic , Gerrit Zitterbart


How can we order this CD? Is it available from any online CD shops?


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|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|

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------------------------------


Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:10:10 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] Aleatoric earthquake art


http://www.gaelwolf.com/pendulum.html









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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 06:03:35 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] Cage chess games and Song Books in Rochester on March 30


Sorry if this question has been asked and answered before,

but I'm in a rush this morning and I haven't got the time

to search the Silence archives:


I'd love to get a copy of any chess games that Cage

played--e-mail would be my preferred mode of receipt.


And on Friday, March 30, at 8 p.m., the all-student-run

new music group at Eastman, Ossia, will present a

staged, evening-length performance of Cage's _Song

Books_, directed by Nigel Maister of the University

of Rochester Theatre Program to an original concept

by me and Elizabeth Wells. I hope that my brief

program notes will be up and running on the Ossia

website <www.esm.rochester.edu/Ossia> soon. We

have a cast of 18 or so and will include recordings

of _Indeterminacy_ (recorded by me and digitally

altered by Jason Price), Aria, and the Solos for

Violin and Cello from the _Concert for Piano

and Orchestra_.


Rob


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage


__________________________________________________

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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:25:13 -0500

From: Louis Goldstein <louieg@wfu.edu>

Subject: Re: [silence] Cage chess games and Song Books in Rochester on March 30


Rob Haskins wrote:


> new music group at Eastman, Ossia, will present a

> staged, evening-length performance of Cage's _Song

> Books_, directed by Nigel Maister of the University

> of Rochester Theatre Program to an original concept

> by me and Elizabeth Wells.


What a great idea!! Wish I could be there!


Louie


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------------------------------


Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:56:51 +0100

From: Tim Ovens <mail@timovens.de>

Subject: Re: [silence] electronic music for piano


> On Sun, Mar 11, 2001 at 03:25:30PM +0100, Tim Ovens wrote:

>

> > Let me please also announce a CD, released in 1999:

> > John Cage, "Jede Menge Klavier" (gutingi 506)

> > It is a recording of a live concert: Works from Cage for one to five

pianos

> > The pianists: Darlen Bakke, Martin Doerrie, Bernd Goetzke, Christoph

Keymer

> > , Tim Ovens , Tatjana Prelevic , Gerrit Zitterbart

>

> How can we order this CD? Is it available from any online CD shops?


You can order at amazon.de (with very expensive shipping), at amazon.com I

didnt't find it. Others I didn't look for.

You also can order on my website or directly from me. Then the CD costs US$

20 incl. shipping.


__________________________________________________

Tim Ovens

Pianist

Hochschule fuer Musik und Theater Hannover


e-mail: mail@timovens.de

website: www.timovens.de




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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:32:42 -0600

From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>

Subject: [silence] Monday, March 19 at Myopic: Ambient Improvisational


Friends,


This coming Monday, March 19, I'll be hosting an "Ambient

Improvisational" event at the Myopic Improv Workshop in Chicago, IL.


This will include myself - Matthew Ross Davis (a.k.a. Craque) -

laying down a groundwork of electronic sonic texture; a continuity of

sound, a layer of ambience to the wonderful creaking floor above us

and the L wooshing by!


The soloists will be whomever wants to join. Consider this an

impromptu call for participants: carry your instrument of choice and

glide in and out of the textures as you feel so inspired. It will be

part musicircus, part workshop, part sonic social club.


Here's the info...


            Ambient Improvisational feat. Craque

            Monday, March 19, 7:30PM

            Myopic Books

            1468 N. Milwaukee, Chicago, IL

            773/862-4882

            Admission is free

- --

=== === === ===

Matthew Ross Davis

http://mp3.com/craque

http://metatronpress.com

=== === === === === === ===

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------------------------------


End of silence-digest V1 #340

*****************************


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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:47:51 -0500 (EST)

From: James Pritchett <jfwp@earthlink.net>

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Reply-To: James Pritchett <jfwp@earthlink.net>

To: silence list <silence@metatronpress.com>

Subject: [silence] Niki de Saint-Phalle Variations II

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Regarding that performance of Variations II with Rauschenberg, Tudor,

Johns, etc. -- I remember reading about that one somewhere, but don't

recall the reference offhand. It might have been one of Calvin Tomkins'

books.


I do know that Tudor's realization here was not the same as his amplified

piano realization of 1961 (the one from that great Columbia recording).

It involved a lot of theatrics and props. There are materials relating to

it in the Tudor collection at the Getty Research Institute.


James Pritchett




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From jzitt Mon Mar 19 10:22:12 2001

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Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 08:18:26 -0800 (PST)

From: Scott Handley <thesubtlebody@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] cage-related article in OCTOBER

To: Silence List <silence@metatronpress.com>

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Sorry if this is common knowledge or already

mentioned, but I ran across the following article in

Issue 95 of OCTOBER, an MIT Press theory/crit journal:

 Liz Kotz, "Post-Cagean Aesthetics and the Event

Score". (I have not read it yet, so cannot comment,

sorry.) I read another article in a recent issue

(Autumn 2000, Vol. 27, No. 1) of the journal CRITICAL

INQUIRY, published by the University of Chicago Press:

Brandon Joseph, "White on White". It's an interesting

if not particularly probing alignment of Cage and

Rauschenberg. Excerpts can be read at:


http://www.uchicago.edu/research/jnl-crit-inq/27.1/27.1.joseph.html

    


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From jzitt Mon Mar 19 13:03:41 2001

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From: "Lowther, John" <JLowther@facstaff.oglethorpe.edu>

To: s i l e n c e <silence@metatronpress.com>

Subject: RE: [silence] cage-related ( )

Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:54:53 -0500

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RE

            article in

            a recent issue

            Autumn 2000, Vol. 27, No. 1) of the journ

            al CRITIC

            AL INQUIRY, Br

  a n d o n J o s e p h

      "White on White".


"interesting if not particularly probing alignment."


http://www.uchicago.edu/research/jnl-crit-inq/27.1/27.1.joseph.html

<http://www.uchicago.edu/research/jnl-crit-inq/27.1/27.1.joseph.html>


                 i thought this was really pretty flat

and i hope

      that far too much is being said when Br

andon suggests clement greenberg reducing to the necessities blah

   necessities rule out too much the point (whatever it may be)

    of 4'33" is surely not "this is a composition reduced to necessities;

 duration an audience an instrument" as much as the piece

may be implicated by that description

                                                                or maybe i

just like cage's

          later realization that 4'33" didn't need to be delimited in time

even still going on inattention as the only non-art

experience

      (but maybe not if it is experienced)

                                                                         i don't know for

rauschenberg

       but for me 4'33" is about the music

                                                            but think about how rauschenberg

moved for a

time there black then white had red preceeded or

  did it follow i can't remember but then he explodes exp

 ands and takes the world in

                                      that's more what 4'33" seems to be

           doing for music

                                     a question that someone (not me)

might be able to answer is whether corrollary moments

 are identifiable in other media... if white paintings and

4'33" are linkable in that way... black paintings also

  right those came before... one cd talk about duchamp

surely but what about dance (merce but otherwise)

   and what of sculpture architecture theater literature

(or as i wd prefer "poetry")


other genres find the corollary in different ways i'm sure

but one example might show why

the reduction reading is ultimately kind of lame

it wd suggest that book without printing

a book of blank pages wd have similar effects

and yet it simply doesnt

framed as art or not

(personal opinion i know but look at it yrself)


so a couple of weeks ago

and this is an index of the difference both in time and mind and much else

cage's time to now

but this phrase spoke from a spicerian martian distance

saying

            *all language as poetry*

suddenly revising

            *is poetry*

which you must admit is sudden shock for anyone trying to put together a

poetry anthology (me that is)

but more importantly for me is not any "reduction" of activities

but


"now that everything is so easy there is so much to do"

  (add a plug for feldmans essays theyre great)


the biggest to do for me seems to be the how to of choosing


more coming


)L





)L

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From jzitt Mon Mar 19 20:48:13 2001

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Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:45:11 -0800 (PST)

From: Rod Stasick <rostasi@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] Wall Street Journal: Cage/Stockhausen

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 Today's (monday , march 19) Wall Street Journal has an

 article on the

 entertainment/commentary page, first section of the paper

 on Cage and

 Stockhausen, recent performance of their works in New

 York. The article was

 very positive and had photos of both.


I don't have a WSJ link tho, because I don't subscribe to

the online version - maybe someone else may be able to

provide one.




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From jzitt Tue Mar 20 02:45:14 2001

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Subject: [silence] word works

From: "Helene L=?ISO-8859-1?B?+A==?=kke" <helene.lokke@otk.no>

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Metamkine mentioned a series from MODE which aim to collect all of Cages

spoken works.


Is that so? (Finally!)


Anybody knows whether the lecture 'where are we going? and what are we

doing?' (or the other way around) will be put out?


I performed this once (rearranged for four individual voices) and its a

really fun piece.


Xi Leif Inge

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From jzitt Thu Mar 22 17:11:52 2001

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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:09:01 -0800 (PST)

From: Rob Haskins <rob_haskins@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] Song Books at Eastman School of Music March 30

To: "SilenceáList" <silence@metatronpress.com>

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I'm producing a fully-staged performance of Cage's

Song Books at the Eastman School of Music on Friday,

March 30, 2001 as part of the concert season for

our all-student-run new music group/presenting organization,

Ossia. The show starts at 8:00 p.m. Admission is

free. For more information on the cast and

an almost 100% accurate version of my program

notes, visit

http://www.esm.rochester.edu/ossia/0330notes.html


=====

Rob Haskins Eastman School of Music

rob_haskins@yahoo.com


"Heroism doesn't consist in brilliantly combatting

   someone else. . . . What is heroic is _to

   accept the situation in which you find yourself._"

    -- John Cage


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--


<silence@fourthirtythree.org> has been added to silence.

No action is required on your part.


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From: <silence@fourthirtythree.org>

To: <silence@metatronpress.com>

Subject: [silence] SILENCE PLEASE

Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:57:24 -0000

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AN APPEAL FOR SILENCE


fourthirtythree.org is a series of projects to mark the 50th anniversary, in

2002, of John Cage's silent composition 'four minutes, thirty-three seconds'


SILENCE PLEASE is our first project. The aim is to collect

single seconds of silence (in the Cagean sense) from as many people as

possible and use them to create collaborative 'performances' of the piece

using contributions from around the world.


 If you would like to contribute a second, please go to

fourthirtythree.org

for details


We look forward to hearing from you




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From jzitt Tue Apr 3 07:51:39 2001

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From: "Clemens Gresser" <cgresser@gmx.net>

To: silence@metatronpress.com

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 13:43:07 +0100

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Subject: [silence] Ten Thounderclaps completed?

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Dear All,


Just came across a piece called "Ten Thounderclaps" (For the

Birds, p. 118, 141), which Cage mentions as not yet completed. As I

could not find it in Larry Solomon's list - does anyone know whether

it was ever completed?


[N.B. Last time I checked the Peters home page a list of works was

still not online; shall we sign a petition for it? ;-)]


Yours,

Clemens


cgresser@gmx.net

http://www.soton.ac.uk/~cgresser


P.S. My e-mail provider seems to lose some messages from

time to time. If you send me something and expect me to reply

quickly, please resend. Thanks!

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From jzitt Tue Apr 3 15:34:09 2001

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From: "Arturas Bumsteinas" <bumstein@yahoo.com>

To: <silence@metatronpress.com>

Subject: [silence] call

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 22:19:53 +0200

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Hi there,

This is a call for participation in sound project.

Please resend this call to persons who could be interested in it..


I am working on electro-acoustic work which will be

broadcasted on Istambul radio in the end of April.

It will be music for tape and wind instruments quartet.

The tape of the composition will be formed of various

souds which I'll collect from people from different countries.

This "multicultural" collage will be as acompany for live band.


I search for people who are interested in taking part in this

project.Participants would send a cassete or cd of their special

sounds and I'd find a place for their stuff in the composition.

Sounds could be any kind you like.It is to your choice

what material should be recorded and what its' duration

must be acctually.

There is no deadline, but it would be better to

get your sounds to the end of the April.


All participants will get the final record, when it'll be performed.


For closer definition write to

bumstein@yahoo.com


www.geocities.com/bumsteinas


=20

send to:


Arturas Bumsteinas

RINKTINES 21-64

VILNIUS 2051

LITHUANIA



Thank you for your time.



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<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>

<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi there,<BR>This is a call for =

participation in=20

sound project.<BR>Please resend this call to persons who could be =

interested in=20

it..</FONT></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am working on electro-acoustic work =

which will=20

be<BR>broadcasted on Istambul radio in the end of April.<BR>It will be =

music for=20

tape and wind instruments quartet.<BR>The tape of the composition will =

be formed=20

of various<BR>souds which I'll collect from people from different=20

countries.<BR>This "multicultural" collage will be as acompany for live=20

band.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I search for people who are interested =

in taking=20

part in this<BR>project.Participants would send a cassete or cd of their =


special<BR>sounds and I'd find a place for their stuff in the=20

composition.<BR>Sounds could be any kind you like.It is to your =

choice<BR>what=20

material should be recorded and what its' duration<BR>must be=20

acctually.<BR>There is no deadline, but it would be better to<BR>get =

your sounds=20

to the end of the April.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All participants will get the final =

record, when=20

it'll be performed.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For closer definition write =

to<BR></FONT><A=20

href=3D"mailto:bumstein@yahoo.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20

size=3D2>bumstein@yahoo.com</FONT></A></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.geocities.com/bumsteinas"><FONT face=3DArial=20

size=3D2>www.geocities.com/bumsteinas</FONT></A></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>send to:</FONT></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Arturas Bumsteinas<BR>RINKTINES =


21-64<BR>VILNIUS 2051<BR>LITHUANIA</STRONG></FONT></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thank you for your=20

time.<BR></FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>


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_________________________________________________________

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From jzitt Wed Apr 4 15:37:19 2001

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From: "Arturas Bumsteinas" <bumstein@yahoo.com>

To: <silence@metatronpress.com>

Subject: [silence] regards and question

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 22:06:15 +0200

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Hello friends,


I'm very thankfull for all the persons who submited to my earlier =

mentioned sound project.

All of them will get the final discs in May.

The project OUSTING.hommage a Dick Higgins. for tape and musicians=20

will be broadcasted on Istanbul Acik radio, 19th of April.

Thank you very much for your interest and help.



At the same time I would like to ask if someone knows

any Cage's works for ordinar SATB choir.



thabk you,


Arturas Bumsteinas


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<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>

<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello friends,</FONT></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm very thankfull for all the persons =

who submited=20

to my earlier mentioned sound project.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All of them will get the final discs in =


May.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The project OUSTING.hommage a Dick =

Higgins. for=20

tape and musicians </FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>will be broadcasted on</FONT><FONT =

face=3DArial=20

size=3D2> Istanbul Acik radio, 19th of April.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thank you very much for your interest =

and=20

help.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>At the same time I would like to ask if =

someone=20

knows</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>any Cage's works for ordinar SATB=20

choir.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thabk you,</FONT></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Arturas =

Bumsteinas</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>


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From jzitt Fri Apr 13 05:46:03 2001

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From: "Arturas Bumsteinas" <bumstein@yahoo.com>

To: <silence@metatronpress.com>

Subject: [silence] ?

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:26:35 +0200

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Hi,


It seems that Mr.Cage didn't leave any choir works?



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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It seems that Mr.Cage didn't leave any =

choir=20

works?</FONT></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>


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From jzitt Fri Apr 13 08:21:30 2001

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Message-ID: <3AD6FB55.FD936F74@mode.com>

Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:12:54 -0400

From: Mode Records <mode@mode.com>

Reply-To: mode@mode.com

Organization: Mode Records

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To: David P Miller <dpmiller@world.std.com>

CC: Arturas Bumsteinas <bumstein@yahoo.com>, silence@metatronpress.com

Subject: Re: [silence] ?

References: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0104130825350.12464-100000@world.std.com>

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There are a number of choral pieces for four and more performers, up to large

ensembles. Most of these have been collected on Mode's first volume of Cage's

choral pieces (information below).


mode 71 John CAGE, Vol. 18: The Choral Works 1 - Hymns and Variations for

                             12 amplified voices; Four2ò; Living Room Music;

ear for Earò; Four Solosò;

                             FiveùVocalgroup Ars Nova/Tamßs Vet÷.


This disc can be ordered directly from Mode at www.mode.com.


Hope this information is of help.


Brian Brandt

mode records


David P Miller wrote:


> There is, at least, _Litany for the Whale_ and _Ear for EAR_. I don't

> believe either of these are for large ensembles, but they are

> choral. (Actually, I'm only familiar with the former.)

>

> David

> dpmiller@world.std.com

>

> On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Arturas Bumsteinas wrote:

>

> > Hi,

> >

> > It seems that Mr.Cage didn't leave any choir works?

>

> -

> [Searchable Silence archives: http://newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/]

> [How to join, unsubscribe, etc: http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/Cage/]

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From jzitt Sun Apr 15 04:52:40 2001

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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Chaudron?= <chaudron@worldonline.nl>

To: "Silence List" <silence@metatronpress.com>

Subject: [silence] Discography

Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 11:42:14 +0200

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Dear people,


Since the New Albion discography is not really updated I decided to make =

a list myself.

Today I published a Cage discography on the net. It comprises available =

records and CD's only. the availability is not always very actual (what =

may be available in one coountry, may not be so in another), some discs =

are hard to get, some may have disappeared completely and other =

recordings I might have missed.

I arranged all Cd's by record label. I am still working on a composition =

> recording list.=20

Please help me to keep this list up to date.


http://home-2.worldonline.nl/~chaudron/discography.html


Good luck,


Andre Chaudron


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<HTML><HEAD>

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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>

<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>

<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear people,</FONT></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Since the New Albion discography is not =

really=20

updated I decided to make a list myself.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Today I published a Cage discography on =

the net. It=20

comprises available records and CD's only. the availability is not =

always very=20

actual (what may be available in one coountry, may not be so in =

another), some=20

discs are hard to get, some may have disappeared completely and other =

recordings=20

I might have missed.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I arranged all Cd's by record label. I =

am still=20

working on a composition &gt; recording list. </FONT></DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please help me to keep this list up to=20

date.</FONT></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20

href=3D"http://home-2.worldonline.nl/~chaudron/discography.html">http://h=

ome-2.worldonline.nl/~chaudron/discography.html</A></FONT></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good luck,</FONT></DIV>

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Andre =

Chaudron</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>


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From jzitt Sun Apr 15 11:00:36 2001

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Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 16:55:16 +0100 (BST)

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?sara=20stagg?= <stagbag@yahoo.co.uk>

Subject: [silence] original composer?

To: silence@metatronpress.com

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Hi

I'm investigating whether John Cage was the only true

original composer of the twentieth century up to 1960.

 I am starting to argue that he wasn't wholly original

because he seems to merely have developed Satie's

ideas, and if you look at what Feldman and others were

doing, they were all fairly similar. I am also

putting forward the idea that he started off as a

composer, but his true originality came through when

he moved towards being more of a philosopher than a

composer.

I would love to know what people think of these ideas,

to give me some help in my investigations.

Thanks

Sara Stagg


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silence-digest Sunday, April 15 2001 Volume 01 : Number 341





----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:47:51 -0500 (EST)

From: James Pritchett <jfwp@earthlink.net>

Subject: [silence] Niki de Saint-Phalle Variations II


Regarding that performance of Variations II with Rauschenberg, Tudor,

Johns, etc. -- I remember reading about that one somewhere, but don't

recall the reference offhand. It might have been one of Calvin Tomkins'

books.


I do know that Tudor's realization here was not the same as his amplified

piano realization of 1961 (the one from that great Columbia recording).

It involved a lot of theatrics and props. There are materials relating to

it in the Tudor collection at the Getty Research Institute.


James Pritchett




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------------------------------


Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:44:24 -0500 (EST)

From: James Pritchett <jfwp@earthlink.net>

Subject: [silence] Electronic music for piano


Regarding Electronic music for piano and Music for Piano 85 -- these are

different works. Music for Piano 85 was unpublished for a long time; the

only source for it that I ever saw was a photograph of the score that Cage

had. I don't know if Peters ever brought that one out.


James Pritchett



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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:18:51 EST

From: Pbaker55@aol.com

Subject: [silence] Re: silence-digest V1 #340


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------------------------------


Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:00:01 +0100 (CET)

From: Heiko Recktenwald <uzs106@IBM.RHRZ.Uni-Bonn.DE>

Subject: Re: Off-topic: E. Jandl (Re: [silence] indeterminacy)


> > Surprised to read the name Jandl here. Are there any more connections

> > between those two ?

>

> You mean the Austrian poet? Apparently, Ernst Jandl was also working as a

> translator - not only as a poet. Maybe a mailinglist on Jandl would know

> more on this thread... :-)


Ah, I see, like HC Artmann, who was also a filmmaker, surprise, surprise,

next wednesday on ARTE tv (for those in germany or france).


Well, still offtopic, thanks,


H.


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Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 08:18:26 -0800 (PST)

From: Scott Handley <thesubtlebody@yahoo.com>

Subject: [silence] cage-related article in OCTOBER


Sorry if this is common knowledge or already

mentioned, but I ran across the following article in

Issue 95 of OCTOBER, an MIT Press theory/crit journal:

 Liz Kotz, "Post-Cagean Aesthetics and the Event

Score". (I have not read it yet, so cannot comment,

sorry.) I read another article in a recent issue

(Autumn 2000, Vol. 27, No. 1) of the journal CRITICAL

INQUIRY, published by the University of Chicago Press:

Brandon Joseph, "White on White". It's an interesting

if not particularly probing alignment of Cage and

Rauschenberg. Excerpts can be read at:


http://www.uchicago.edu/research/jnl-crit-inq/27.1/27.1.joseph.html

    


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